No But having 300,000 ,miles behind me.and being around a majior maratime school first hand and chating with my friend who has been in MSC not 27 yrs but
29 we tend to agree, I think its great they go to school and what to be in the trade But the majiorty of them get on board with something things trying to prove.and really dont know that much. I saw a 3rd who was next to be the cargo mate get his leg crushed doing flight ops .he thought he was the know it all guy.until that happend and when it did all eyes were focused on him and NOT the guy going into schock with a 2000 lb bomb on a pallet .who I ran over to and secured the fork lift with him in it and took care of it. The deck dept knew he was an accident waiting to happen,when this happend he was ruuning agound on the flight deck acting like he was the man. NOT a team player but all ego ,he ran right behind a forklift with a bomb and oh yea the guy in the fork lift had 20 yrs in and is still in the outfit .Mate was last seen being taken away in a helo.!Book learing is fine but I prefer someone with expericence if I have to got sea them. just being honest in my opion which is what forms like this is about. cheers
We all have to learn sometime. Yourself included.
Most of us agree with you, New3M. I certainly do.
Unfortunately for most academy thirds the place they learn is on their first ship, and second and third ship.
Hawsepipers have the advantage of having learned many aspects of the job over a period of at least 1080 days on the job while working for different companies on different ships doing different things.
Compare a third from an academy, whose sea time mostly consists of a few months being either abused or ignored on a commercial cruise and a few more months on summer cruise, to a hawsepiper. Book learning is certainly valuable, but how does it compare to thousands of hours of real work in the real world? A quote from The Cane Mutiny says it right, “To operate all you need is any group of well trained monkeys. Ninety-nine percent of everything we do is strict routine. Only one percent requires creative intelligence.”
There are other significant differences as well. Most academy grads are about twenty-two years old and still growing up. Some are starting their first job, ever. Many went from being under their parent’s control directly to being under their commandant’s control than suddenly being under no one’s control where they run wild and wicked. Hawsepipers went threw this years before and are (usually) past it all.
These are just some of the reasons hawsepipers are displeased with academy thirds. The perception, or at least my perception, is that the academy third generally amounts to an ordinary seaman or wiper with a license.
I’ve had this lively discussion on many ships over the years and there are many good reasons why an academy grad can be superior to a hawsepiper. I’ll be the first to admit that the difference between the two generally disappears after a few ships, or about the time when the thirds get their second’s license. The difference does not last.
I’ve grown tired of coddling new thirds. I’ve been at this too long to find them amusing.
I have to agree with you, I worked tugs before going to the academy and went back to tugs when I was out. The new guys from acdemy i work with generally have little towing experience and are green on deck. But this is why we start them as a deckhand for a bit so they can learn the job, and ease into a second mate position.
Hi I am sorry I get the bees stirred up .But I think they should sail a year on deck before the should sail as third.I Think they woud act very different when they sailed as a third and would view things differently . and I do not find them amusing either.
[QUOTE=mradventure;49441].But I think they should sail a year on deck before the should sail as third…[/QUOTE]
The sharp line between licensed / unlicensed and officers / enlisted is an anachronism based on outmoded ideas about class and education. Rather then think that way we need to blur those lines. Here’s how:
On a deep-sea US flag ship there are three watch-standing mates and six AB including three watch standing ABs. Rather then carrry 6 ABs ships should carry 3 ABs and 3 Jr. watch officers. Regulations should require two crew members in the wheel house while underway, a watch officer and a junior watch officer. When in open waters the junior watch officer could stand watch while the senior watch officer preformed clerical duties nearby. When the situation was such the the Jr required assistance the senior officer would be immediately available.
The Jr. Watch officer could be required to work on deck during mooring and unmooring operations etc or chip and paint under the bos’n.
This would solve two problems, the training of the new mates would improve and it would address the shortage of deck officers on board which is really a shortage of expertise.
The jr watch officer could either be an experienced AB who has demonstrated competence in watch standing or a new academy grad fresh out of school.
K.C.
Hey I’m new to this site and the maritime career…currently busting me ars looking for work here in Florida. But to shed some light on the MSC issue. I originally had the mindset in joining MSC and had noticed a recruitment notification for OS capacity held mariners on there website. I inquire, they send me a hiring pack. I thoroughly fill everything out with all info, copies etc. Nearly 2 weeks later I receive an email thanking me for my time…wtf. Why put up ads for recruitment if you don’t recruit. But with talking with others, it seems to be tough to get a call back. Although the reputation of MSC is good as I hear, if you can land a job the incentives and advancement is worth it.
good on you I fully agree.