I can tell you that i was treated very differently my 2nd sea term than I was the first. My first year I spent the majority of my time working with the unlicensed guys, mostly the reefer and electrician and some the wiper. It was only in my second year after some time for the Chief and 1st to get to know me that was I treated like a 4th Engineer.
There was very little “just observing” going on. I worked 12 hr days, 7 days a week and had to do my sea projects almost solely on my own time. Sometimes I worked with the engineers if it was a good learning opportunity but I frequently was given my own projects to do.
Nothing wrong with following the unlicensed around!!! When I first got on a Tug the person I learn the most was from an AB. Unlicensed personnel onboard vessels are the most under appreciated crew members but yet they do most of the leg work.
Heck no nothing wrong with it. People get or don’t a license for a lot of reasons. Intelligence and experience don’t necessarily have anything to do with it.
I feel your opinion may be somewhat extreme. Where collegiate experience may not be “congruent” with commercial, real life work experience, it is not, and to my knowledge ever been designed to be in identical form of the commercial, real life experience. I am not sure who has delegated cadets on your ship (s) to “free reign” in a supervisory capacity, but no doubt, this would be inappropriate (IMO). Cadet training aboard a commercial vessel should however allow the cadet to engage in a supervisory role and be granted the privilege to make management level decisions if they have proved their ability to do so.
Your statement describing “your take”, created for me a perception that only those with real world experience shall be deemed justified in fulfilling a management role. Everyone (including yourself) had to start out somewhere. That “somewhere” for many is the commercial cruise experience. Companies who chose to participate in the cadet training program, are well aware of the risks, and undoubtedly have created guidelines for cadet job descriptions aboard their vessels. For this reason, your language stating “in any capacity”, is in my opinion hyperbole and should perhaps be restated.
A but full if KP, huh? KP does not send out more cadets than the other academies combined, and probably not more than certain ones alone. By the way, the minimum cadet wage is set by MARAD.
[QUOTE=Pikuptruk;59563]I feel your opinion may be somewhat extreme. Where collegiate experience may not be “congruent” with commercial, real life work experience, it is not, and to my knowledge ever been designed to be in identical form of the commercial, real life experience. I am not sure who has delegated cadets on your ship (s) to “free reign” in a supervisory capacity, but no doubt, this would be inappropriate (IMO). Cadet training aboard a commercial vessel should however allow the cadet to engage in a supervisory role and be granted the privilege to make management level decisions if they have proved their ability to do so.
Your statement describing “your take”, created for me a perception that only those with real world experience shall be deemed justified in fulfilling a management role. Everyone (including yourself) had to start out somewhere. That “somewhere” for many is the commercial cruise experience. Companies who chose to participate in the cadet training program, are well aware of the risks, and undoubtedly have created guidelines for cadet job descriptions aboard their vessels. For this reason, your language stating “in any capacity”, is in my opinion hyperbole and should perhaps be restated.[/QUOTE]
I feel that simply having a license, and showing up at the gangway is NOT the litmus test to determine if someone is qualified to stand their own watch. I have known several ABs who are better than some fresh graduates at the whole job. However, I have sailed with some graduates who are top notch, right out of the box.
What I rail against is the notion that simply showing up at the gangway with a paper in hand is NOT proof that one can stand a watch. The cadet shipping aspect is a further example. Not every cadet shipping experience Is equal. Nor is each cadet. For someone to say that the cadet is somehow able to come into the work place and assume command is rediculous. But knowing and having heard this demand from a KPer in the early '80s, I know it exists.
I am in agreement with you on this for sure. I have heard is about KP. Someone needs to tighten the choke chain on those fools. In addition, many of them don’t even go to KP to sail. They go there so that they can get perks in their military career…