Preferably one that has won cases against maritime unions?
Well, I can tell you from experience that unless you have had an appendage torn off while on the boat you might as well forget about legal representation; that is unless you are bleeding hundred dollar bills.
No lawyer is interested in any labor disputes. Most “maritime lawyers” are only interested in chasing ambulances.
I needed a decent lawyer versed in Marine Law to defend me against the puddle pirates and a tankerman that accidentally “slipped on a bar of soap” on my watch and I found one.
$50k retainer just to get started plus $1k/hr rate, travel, etc.
Would have cost me at least $100k to defend myself so I just struck a plea bargain instead.
Wasn’t worth it.
I have been screwed over by companies and unions alike and never had a “maritime attorney” even take a remote interest in the case even when it was cut and dry.
That is unless I was willing to pay a substantial upfront retainer.
MOPS insurance has all kinds of lawyers on stby to represent various cases. You can call them and they will refer you to a lawyer that they would use if you had their insurance, who are arguably the best in the industry, but unless you have their insurance they are going to cost you big time.
Good luck…you will need it
[QUOTE=Veslog;147786]…I needed a decent lawyer versed in Marine Law to [U][/U][B]defend me [/B]… $50k retainer just to get started plus $1k/hr rate, travel, etc. Would have cost me at least $100k to defend myself so I just struck a plea bargain instead…[/QUOTE]
You were a defendant, it sounds like he’s looking to bring a suit (plaintiff). For plaintiffs, lawyers typically work on a contingent fee. If they won’t it probably means the case has extremely little chance of succeeding.
And most labor cases have very little chance of succeeding because it all comes down to “he said, he said” and when most of your “witnesses” are still working for the company or union that you are trying to sue.
And almost certainly the company or union you want to sue has much deeper pockets than you or your “contingent lawyer”.
And also because in the eyes of most everyone you are just a “disgruntled” member, ex member, or former employee.
I had a company that would not send me a letter of sea time although it is written in the CFR’s that they must provide me with one upon request therefore making it a “Federal Law”.
I called the puddle pirates and they told me it was a “Civil Matter” although it is clearly stated in the CFR’s that it is a Federal Law.
I could not even get them to make a phone call on my behalf.
I guess if they are not seizing 100 kilo’s of coke it ain’t worth their time.
If they can’t dress up in commando gear and drive circles around your boat in their RIB’s showing off their firepower then it doesn’t have enough “glory” for them to bother with.
I contacted a Maritime Attorney…I mean several maritime attorneys and none of them were interested even with me paying them cash on the barrel head upfront not a “contingent fee” upon a successful suit.
just one mariners experience…
like all the others have stated so accurately here…you are PISSING IN THE WIND!
there is only one type of case any maritime attorney will touch when it comes to a seaman and that is a Jones Act unseaworthiness injury claim which they defacto have already won…it is guaranteed they will collect a substantial check. Your claim is hardly one which any damages are to be collected and thus you will be the one forced to pay for an attorney’s representation. Unless you are a female wanting to be a pilot in Puget Sound and your attorney is able to go after a State to collect then forget any attempt to win a breach of contract or discrimination suit.
of course, if you are wanting to sue the AMO, then I would love to see a class action claim be certified by the court but you’ll need alot of your brothers to sign on with you and because the AMO rank and file are already huge idiots for even being in that so called “union” you are going to be waiting a very long time.
sorry but JOE COMPANY and JOE UNION BOSS both WIN!
Well, I’m sure there are specialties within the admiralty law field. For example, many maritime attorneys focus on Jones Act cases, some focus on licensing, etc. OP, I suspect a labor lawyer is what you’re looking for, and he/she wouldn’t necessarily have to be a maritime attorney specifically, just someone who is versed in labor law. Unfortunately, the unions tend to have better lawyers than you can afford, so you’ll really have to have your ducks in a row, so to speak, and you’ll probably just about have to have the metaphorical “smoking gun” too. Read through your union’s constitution carefully also–usually, if you have a problem with the union, you have to follow the grievance and arbitration procedures before you can even think of filing suit in court. You may already know all this, though. Either way, good luck–and if it’s against AMO, triple that.
Veslog: the Coast Guard was probably correct when they told you that your dispute with your former employer was a civil matter. Not every breach of law is a criminal matter. And I doubt most attorneys, particularly maritime attorneys, are going to be particularly interested in a very small-time case. Did you, by chance, show the company the relevant regulation that requires them to give you a letter of sea time? It could be that they simply didn’t realize it was required. If the company still refuses, then I’m not sure exactly what your remedy would be. I would think there would have to be some part of the Coast Guard that enforces this sort of thing, but I’m just as likely to be wrong.
[QUOTE=awulfclark;147807]Well,
Veslog: the Coast Guard was probably correct when they told you that your dispute with your former employer was a civil matter. Not every breach of law is a criminal matter. And I doubt most attorneys, particularly maritime attorneys, are going to be particularly interested in a very small-time case. Did you, by chance, show the company the relevant regulation that requires them to give you a letter of sea time? It could be that they simply didn’t realize it was required. If the company still refuses, then I’m not sure exactly what your remedy would be. I would think there would have to be some part of the Coast Guard that enforces this sort of thing, but I’m just as likely to be wrong.[/QUOTE]
In that particular case… it may have been helpful to have an attorney craft a letter to the former employer demanding the letter and citing the regulation that says they are compelled to provide it… they can also put in the legal mumbo jumbo threats that if they don’t comply that you will be pursuing further legal action and intend to sue for lost wages due to their delay in providing you a required document. Any lawyer could pretty much do this for you… doesn’t necessarily have to be a maritime one if you can point them in the right directions for regs. It wouldn’t be all that expensive to just get them to write the letter. You may have no intention of pursuing it further… but sometimes those kinds of things get results where our repeated badgering doesn’t.
Last year during a COI, I brought to the USCG’s attention numerous violations of the STCW rest requirement’s on the vessel I was employed. The response I received was “we do not get involved in labor issues”.
They only care when they’re the one to discover it. Or you have an accident. Personally, I think rest rules are good but if you are ratting yourself and the company out to the CG, I wouldn’t want you working for me. If you can’t settle the issue in house, work elsewhere.
If they cared about rest hours they would have to tie up nearly every 2 watch boat there is.
An accident waiting to happen was exactly the point I made to the USCG. Settle the issue in house? Believe me, the issue could not be settled “in house”. Ratting out to the USCG was the only option left. Blome.
At first blush, it looks as though the USCG inspector’s comment was wrong. Violations of STCW rest requirements are not labor issues, they’re regulatory/legal issues, and the USCG should be the ones that investigate those issues. However, the question must be asked: was the vessel in question actually subject to STCW? I’m struggling to work out why you would have been summarily dismissed like that.
I do agree with z-drive, however, that if you have an issue with rest violations, take it up through your chain of command first. If you can’t get satisfaction that way, then you’re faced with a choice of walking away from the job or whistleblowing. Personally, if my captain was unwilling to listen to me on this subject, it’s probably not a captain I’m particularly willing to work for anyway. That’s a generic comment, by the way, not aimed at you, Rich–I assumed that you had already done that.
To clarify, I’d leave mostly because I’m not going to blatantly violate a law for the company just to potentially be penalized for it later. Maybe tell the CG on the way out the door, but ultimately you as vessel personnel will be held responsible for violating STCW, joe boss if at all, will be to a lesser extent.
Don’t believe any OHSHA investigator that tells you that they can help you either. The only way you are going to win against a company is if its a slam dunk, or if you have everything documented. It doesn’t do you much good to go after the company without witness’s that will back you up.
[QUOTE=awulfclark;147830]At first blush, it looks as though the USCG inspector’s comment was wrong. Violations of STCW rest requirements are not labor issues, they’re regulatory/legal issues, and the USCG should be the ones that investigate those issues. However, the question must be asked: was the vessel in question actually subject to STCW? I’m struggling to work out why you would have been summarily dismissed like that.
I do agree with z-drive, however, that if you have an issue with rest violations, take it up through your chain of command first. If you can’t get satisfaction that way, then you’re faced with a choice of walking away from the job or whistleblowing. Personally, if my captain was unwilling to listen to me on this subject, it’s probably not a captain I’m particularly willing to work for anyway. That’s a generic comment, by the way, not aimed at you, Rich–I assumed that you had already done that.[/QUOTE]
There is a time and place for everything. The USCG guys that were on the vessel were there to inspect the boat, not address random complaints. The guy may have come off as just whining cause he wasn’t getting his smoke breaks and wanted someone to “fix it”. So, chain of command first and if you get no traction there, you can contact the coast guard. However, if you do get to that point, you better have your ducks in a row. You will need to be able to provide them with specific examples and if possible documentation of the violation and be prepared to give them all the correspondence that you had with the company regarding this matter. In other words, get stuff in writing and keep it as documentation of the violation.
Now, some unsolicited advice for Rich…so take it with a grain of salt. Pick your battles wisely. Jobs aren’t all that easy to come by and the likelihood that you are going to win some screaming huge settlement from a company that shorted you on rest hours is probably pretty slim. (if that’s the situation… you never explicitly told us) I’m not saying that I think it’s right for a company to not follow regulations but in the real world, stuff happens on occasion. You get shorthanded or in the weeds and everyone just tries to do the best that they can to get the job done. So, it doesn’t seem prudent to go to risk it all for relatively minor infractions. Not saying that is the case in your situation… just stating my opinion on how I might react if it wasn’t a major issue. I’m not even saying it’s fair that we, as employees, have to suck it up sometimes and do stuff we don’t like but we don’t have the jobs, the company does and within reason, it’s in our best interests to do what they want. I’m not advocating outright, major illegal stuff here… just saying if you get shorted 15 minutes every now and again… it’s probably not the end of the world. Does the company have a good safety record? Does the vessel have a good safety culture otherwise? If the answer is no… then you probably don’t want to be working there right? If they are aware there is a problem and won’t fix it. Find another job and give the coast guard a heads up.
I could be completely offbase with what your issue is, but I think you will probably get better results if you approach things a little differently. I am assuming you don’t spend 365 days a year on the boat, so you probably would be better off contacting the coastguard when they aren’t trying to inspect a boat.
Can you explain the link between maritime unions and this case? Did the company fire you because of your STCW stand with USCG and the union didn’t back you up? Otherwise, I don’t get the beef with the union.
[QUOTE=RichM;147780]Preferably one that has won cases against maritime unions?[/QUOTE]
I think it is important to note that the USCG only gives lip service towards applying or enforcing the IMO regulations they are signatory to. They have proven to all of us here to be on the side of the vessel owners and their own interpretation of the IMO regs is only to the point where it does not inconvenience their masters. This also goes to the point of applying and enforcing US statutes as well. They are extremely selective in what they want to come down on and work hours I would well imagine are not even on their radar although they do love to tell you that your flares are not SOLAS approved! It isn’t even the USCG either but most regulatory bodies in this country. NPR has been running stories the past couple days of how the MSA does not enforce fines levied against mine owners who are deliquent and states how it does not have the authority to shut down mines for not paying their fines. As a result mine workers die needlessly. The corruption in the system is endemic and all pervasive. The criminals rule the cops! Welcome the the mighty US of A! We are worse than a Banana Republic because at least they don’t pretend to not be morally bankrupt!
“I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. . . . corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed.”
—U.S. President Abraham Lincoln, Nov. 21, 1864
(letter to Col. William F. Elkins)
All the players are corrupt in this horrible business…the owners, the charterers, the class societies, the unions and the USCG. Don’t expect a single party to take a stand to ensure compliance is met. This is certainly something the remainder of the maritime world has come to know about the US shipping industry and what has isolated us. We don’t lead or even follow but go our own way because we are the USA and can tell everyone else out there to EFF themselves. Makes for lots and lots of friends out there!
You can try to fight the system and see how far you get. I tried to fight the foreign mariner issue in the GoM and all I got was a yawn from the USCG even when I had a smoking gun. I did not go back to be dismissed again. If you work in the business you have got to accept the very sad reality that even if you know everything is wrong, you cannot make it right.
your turn Steamer
How about the whole ISM scam?
[QUOTE=c.captain;147875]
All the players are corrupt in this horrible business…the owners, the charterers, the class societies, the unions and the USCG. Don’t expect a single party to take a stand to ensure compliance is met. This is certainly something the remainder of the maritime world has come to know about the US shipping industry and what has isolated us. We don’t lead or even follow but go our own way because we are the USA and can tell everyone else out there to EFF themselves. Makes for lots and lots of friends out there!
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=RespectMyAuthority;147923]How about the whole ISM scam?[/QUOTE]
I didn’t say that IMO regulations made the industry any better or safer…did I? It is just that the USCG signs the conventions and is defacto expected to adopt the regulations but we all see where they pick and choose those they want to apply and those they don’t (especially with the STCW Code).
regarding ISM…I wished to hell those three letters never were ever put together into any combination. I long to go back to a simpler time when one was inspected and not audited!
The USCG does not sign these conventions, they make rules and enforce same based on those conventions. Ratifying international agreements is a power reserved for the Senate.
[QUOTE=awulfclark;147929]The USCG does not sign these conventions, they make rules and enforce same based on those conventions. Ratifying international agreements is a power reserved for the Senate.[/QUOTE]
a delegation from the USCG represents the USA at the IMO. As far as I know, the USCG is at the helm with everything to do with negotiating any IMO treaty conditions.
I have also never once heard of the US Senate voting to ratify any IMO treaty