Lookin at the video, if an evacuation had proved necessary in those winter conditions there wouldn’t have been one.
Had a friend that worked the Norway Faroe Iceland route. She had some hysterical videos she took of the interior coming unstowed, so to speak, but hardly a drop spilled at the bar … Good kid too. I think she spoke like 5 languages, never gave or caused any trouble, and was always first on deck, last to leave.
The vessel in question is a cruise ship not an ocean liner. There is a difference. Ocean liners are much more expensive to build for one thing. Taking a cruise ship into a storm is an iffy proposition.
I saw a video of the captain discussing the weather on a cruise forum somewhere. He was a bit animated, he said that he had expected 5 meter seas. He also said it was one of the most challenging times in his career.
I assume that cruise ships have strict limits
on roll angle for ships with passengers aboard and take pains that the limits are not exceeded. I suspect that the captain, for whatever reason, didn’t fully understand the weather situation.
[video=youtube_share;wu0Ytiav9eI]http://youtu.be/wu0Ytiav9eI[/video]
[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;178754]
I assume that cruise ships have strict limits on roll angle for ships with passengers aboard and take pains that the limits are not exceeded. I suspect that the captain, for whatever reason, didn’t fully understand the weather situation.[/QUOTE]
You are correct. Remember a cruise ship captain is a company representative and people manager first and foremost. There are some excellent ones who previously ran cargo across oceans and then there are some who came up thru the cruise ship ranks.
gCaptain’s own Fredwx mentioned this storm for free within 24 hours of the ship sailing.
here is part 1
part 2
part 3
"If by Cape Horn, you would pass
First, you must
Get 'round Hatteras"
[QUOTE=ombugge;178736]Could that claimed “snap” action may be what caused things to fall and people to get hurt, although nothing serious? (This time)[/QUOTE]
I think that just refers to Oasis being considerable wider than other cruise ships, and thus having a considerably greater KM (but not necessarily GM, meaning that the ship won’t be as stiff as, say, some kind of barge).
[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;178747]That Cruise Law site is not a good site for stability info. This is a post from Old Salt Blogregarding the Cruise Law site and judging stability by eye.[/QUOTE]
??? I didn’t say anything about stability, only about LSA capacity and the fact that if damages cause a list of 20 degr. or above there is not even enough LSA to evacuate everybody. The vessel may be stable at 20 degr. or more, but that is not an issue.
I’m an advocate for the best policy may be NOT to abandon but try to reach port, whether under own power or under tow.
The risk assessment and decisions should be made on board, not by anybody ashore, no matter whether they are Corporate, SAR, Maritime Authorities, or anybody else.
Too many times the decision is forced on the Master and people dye from being “rescued” unnecessarily.
I though we just had this discussion re: Modern Express??
[QUOTE=Tups;178760]I think that just refers to Oasis being considerable wider than other cruise ships, and thus having a considerably greater KM (but not necessarily GM, meaning that the ship won’t be as stiff as, say, some kind of barge).[/QUOTE]
Well I said that tong in cheek. I obviously don’t know what GM they are striving for, or whether they make the ship a bit stiff to reduce roll angle/heel from beam seas and wind. (I assume they have the ability to do so by adding ballast?)
[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;178754]I saw a video of the captain discussing the weather on a cruise forum somewhere. He was a bit animated, he said that he had expected 5 meter seas. He also said it was one of the most challenging times in his career.
I assume that cruise ships have strict limits
on roll angle for ships with passengers aboard and take pains that the limits are not exceeded. I suspect that the captain, for whatever reason, didn’t fully understand the weather situation.
[video=youtube_share;wu0Ytiav9eI]http://youtu.be/wu0Ytiav9eI[/video][/QUOTE]
I can hear he comes from somewhere close to Bergen.
[QUOTE=ombugge;178764]Well I said that tong in cheek. I obviously don’t know what GM they are striving for, or whether they make the ship a bit stiff to reduce roll angle/heel from beam seas and wind. (I assume they have the ability to do so by adding ballast?)[/QUOTE]
with how tall modern cruise ships are is it even possible for one to be made stiff? I would think they all are terribly tender and roll like drunken pigs in a big sea.
It isn’t an Oasis Class ship.
[QUOTE=civmar;178759]"If by Cape Horn, you would pass
First, you must
Get 'round Hatteras"[/QUOTE]
Below 40 degrees south there is no law.
Below 50 degrees there is no god.
That Cruiselaw site tends to play into the ignorance of the general public. The guy who runs it is a lawyer. I do enjoy some of his posts, but he plays up the hyperbole. He tends to blame the cruise lines for every single thing that happens to passengers, especially norovirus outbreaks and pax who fall overboard. Have you ever walked around on a cruise ship? It’s hard as hell to fall overboard unless you’re trying. Or shit faced. Of course, he makes his money from lawsuit winnings so there’s his motivation.
[QUOTE=ombugge;178762]??? I didn’t say anything about stability, only about LSA capacity and the fact that if damages cause a list of 20 degr. or above there is not even enough LSA to evacuate everybody. The vessel may be stable at 20 degr. or more, but that is not an issue.
I’m an advocate for the best policy may be NOT to abandon but try to reach port, whether under own power or under tow.
The risk assessment and decisions should be made on board, not by anybody ashore, no matter whether they are Corporate, SAR, Maritime Authorities, or anybody else.
Too many times the decision is forced on the Master and people dye from being “rescued” unnecessarily.
I though we just had this discussion re: Modern Express??[/QUOTE]
I was responding to this part:
will be glad to know that these ships are safe and stable:
To keep the ship stable without increasing the draft excessively, the designers created a wide hull. About 30 feet (9 m) of the ship sits beneath the water, a small percentage of the ship’s overall height. Wide, shallow ships such as this tend to be “snappy”, meaning that they can snap back upright after a wave has passed, which can be uncomfortable. This effect, however, is mitigated by the vessel’s large size.[15] The cruise ship’s officers were pleased with the ship’s stability and performance during the transatlantic crossing, when the vessel, in order to allow finishing work to go on, slowed and changed course in the face of winds “almost up to hurricane force” and seas in excess of 40 feet (12 m).[16][17](My highlights)
Could that claimed “snap” action may be what caused things to fall and people to get hurt, although nothing serious? (This time)
Increasing the beam increases GM. “Snappy” refers to a stiff ship. The discussion with the Express was if being high made it tender.
[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;178788]I was responding to this part:
Increasing the beam increases GM. “Snappy” refers to a stiff ship. The discussion with the Express was if being high made it tender.[/QUOTE]
I thought the stability part came from Wikipedia based on the footnotes but may be wrong. It’s not wrong to assume it came from the only site he actually sourced though.
[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;178792]I thought the stability part came from Wikipedia based on the footnotes but may be wrong. It’s not wrong to assume it came from the only site he actually sourced though.[/QUOTE]
Don’t know where it came from. It ain’t La Dage and Van Gemert.
[QUOTE=Steamer;178735]For costs to exceed revenue.[/QUOTE]
So now, they need, what, a million to put everything back together again; they’re gonna miss the next two or three or four voyages and all that adds up to some serious costs.
But more to the point, everyone and anyone who had authority to say “Go or no go” should be strung up by their cajones for being just plain stupid. The forecast was enough warning that if you go, you’re asking for it.
I agree. I worked on cruise ships for 10 years and some of his assumptions are a bit ridiculous and I’m not sure if he has actually been on one for more than a cruise or two. At some point the pax are responsible for their own actions.
This article is a good collection of links and passenger videos. [[B]
Crashing waves, breaking glass: when a hurricane-strength storm hits your cruise ship[/B]](http://www.vox.com/2016/2/9/10949568/anthem-of-the-seas-cruise-ship-storm)
Credible source gives the max roll as 22 degrees. That sound about right. Loose stuff starts to fly around past about a 15 degree roll. 22 degrees would definitely scare a lot of the passengers.