Another bridge incident - Mexican sail training vessel Cuauhtémoc

Just watched the Sal video.

Pretty much nailed it as far as the information we have available at this time.

The plan with the single tug looks like a good one, fast on the starboard quarter then let go to push the bow around. The only other thing I can think of that would have been better was not to let go the tug but have it pull on it’s line to swing the ship. Against this was of course the pivot point being down aft so more force is required. Also perhaps Jug can comment on the size of the bollards on board the STS and if they were suitable for exerting force on.

Just one more question.

If the plan involved the tug pushing on the starboard shoulder why was there not a tarpaulin rigged there to protect the hull .

All said of course with 100% hindsight

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I have just had a quick peruse of a Berg CPP manual (290 pages) and it would appear that their default position is the last known position.
So if the “Cuauhtémoc” set slow astern or half astern for departure from the berth then that pitch would have remained following a failure.

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Another interesting ISM article.

“(www.MaritimeCyprus.com) Failure of Controllable Pitch Propellers (CPP) occurs and will continue to occur. These usually involve damage to a berth or a collision, but there have been incidents where the CPP failure has resulted in injury to personnel both ashore and on board.

On recent ship surveys, we have asked masters, chief engineers and watchkeepers if they are aware of the default position of the CPP when all control is lost due to, for example, a power or hydraulic failure. Very few of those asked knew what the default position is and no ship had a notice posted advising watchkeepers of the default position.

It is important for the master, watchkeepers and engineers to know what the default position is. This should be included in the initial onboard familiarisation of a ship when a new officer joins. It should be a part of the ship’s preparation to have a trained response for a possible CPP failure;

what are you going to do if the CPP fails?

This knowledge should be available to all watchkeepers on board.

A CPP system covers the complete range of a ship’s manoeuvring demands, including full ahead, dead slow, stop and astern, merely by controlling the propeller blade pitch.

Most ships that require a high degree of manoeuvrability are fitted with a controllable pitch propeller system. Although a CPP has a higher degree of flexibility for the manoeuvring of a ship, its design, manufacture, installation, and operation are more complex than a conventional fixed pitch propeller. It is due to the complexity of the CPP operation and control that failures may occur, and these potential failures must be taken into account by the ship’s crew.”

Edit: On reflection, this should be a question asked when undertaking the Master/ Pilot exchange (MPX) on CPP vessels.

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“EAGLE” was fixed pitch, but featured a sail clutch that allowed it the ability to free wheel when not in use. Not a zero drag situation, but the best available solution when built.

Things may have changed as it was '92 last time I was aboard.

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Good article Aus :+1:

Agree it should be known to bridge watch keepers and also part of the MPX

IIRC we only found out about the default position when a 4000 shp engine went full astern when backed up to an oil rig. It was extremely quick thinking from the Captain that prevented serious damage

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My Aztec is not the best.:innocent:

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244…I thought the same thing about pulling on the stbd quarter and then letting go.

I think they wanted them clear to engage forward thrust.

Sal,
There are always different ways to skin a cat.
One thing I learnt in 23 years of piloting was that 2 Pilots cannot agree which way to sit on a toilet seat.

Just watched a YouTube video from someone called Jeff something or other.

Did anyone else see the lights dimming and getting brighter on the ship as she left the berth ?

It may just be an optical illusion caught on one person’s mobile

Another minor thing to consider.

At our company SOP before departure from a dock, before lines are cast off, is to test propulsion ahead and astern several times (typically going from ahead to astern twice).

I would assume this is typical SOP for most companies.

Was this the case on Cuauhtémoc? I’m sure we’ll learn later.

33 CFR 164.25

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One other SOP thing. The most basic SOP for maneuvering in harbors. In Seattle our vessels operate with one anchor backed out of the hawse ready to drop from the brake. There is always a trusted AB with a radio standing by the windlass ready to drop anchor.

You pilots out there: if there was a pilot aboard would he have attended to the pre-departure propulsion check, and asked the captain if an anchor was ready to drop? Or would that be wholly up to the captain

Would simply ask if the vessel was ready for departure.

It depends on how long before departure you arrive on board if you witness the pre sailing checks or not.

A lot of Captains will state that the engine has been tested during the MPX.

I can only reply from a personal point of view here.

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for the pilots - asked earlier - in my experience backing out from a finger pier - we would do it as slow as we could - so in general would go all stop as soon as we had some stern way on. Wondering how long this ship had their astern bell on before they realized there was an issue.

I was always a look out of the window type of guy.

If things are passing too quickly you are probably giving too fast.

As technology advanced and there was better speed information available the newer generation of pilots wanted numbers. I had to reverse engineer what looked right to the actual GPS speed.

I found the magic number was 2 knots.

Once below this you could do anything (almost :sad_but_relieved_face:)

Slow is the new black

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So, to be sure, pilots never inquire directly as to whether the anchor is ready to drop?

was told by a docking pilot who was absolutely wonderful at his craft- a great pilot talent is being able to see real motion at very slow speeds.

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I always tell the ship that I require a man forward for the transit standing by the anchors. I don’t specifically ask if the anchors are ready, but it’s understood and I’ve never had a ship ask me “what for?”

It’s SOP for every ship.

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Ossian Thesis.pdf (1.2 MB)

It is all about TESTING:

Class NK
image

It’s human nature to respond to the request for a crew member standing by with a wide range of diligence. The junior guy who doesn’t know much goes forward because it’s windy and raining. The engineer has to turn on the hydraulics, and nobody wants to ask because he’s grumpy. The hawsepipes are still cemented from 6 trips ago. Sure Mr. Pilot, all’s ready.