In the midst of a friendly discussion about methodology in calling out anchor lead/ strain to the bridge/ Capt. Its been my experience that the Clock system is the one employed by most vessels though a very knowledgeable and seasoned friend says the Point system is better. I know it is ultimately up to the Captains preference but wanted to see if there was a consensus on here… 
I prefer points, but due to working with too many ABs and officers from the bayou that wouldn’t be able to call points if their lives depended on it, I’ve adjusted to having them just do clock positions.
…and yes, I’ve tried to teach it, but it’s been a losing battle most of the time.
Clock system
Also like your profile picture of Kiko.
In another 20 years there won’t be any analogue clocks so the youngsters won’t know how to read them; what happens then once absolutely everything is digital?
And how to describe circular motion if not “clockwise” and “counter-clockwise?” “Righty-tighty, lefty loosey” doesn’t worjk in all situatioons.
I’ll disagree, I’m in a current new build SRIV and has an analog clock integrated to the ship system. Don’t see analog clock going anywhere. My current observations in my generation they are moving back to analog clocks as they don’t want to be tracked with smartwatches or anything digital that requires a battery.
For me the way to go is watch system using points shall be for targets.
I am always interested in the latest interpretations of good seamanship.
The clock system is a relatively modern system as most seafarers would not have access to a clock until the early 20th century.
It was adopted by the US military and merchant marine along with left or red for port and right or green for starboard. Fortunately that was not the case in Western Europe for me at least as I am dyslexic and get right and left confused regularly.
Learning port and starboard somewhat later in life (18) it does not cause me the same confusion.
Personally I prefer points to clock, it is what I am used to .As one commentator has noted , as clocks are becoming digital new entrants will be unfamiliar with the old clock face. The point system also reflects the points of the compass .
For the life of me I cannot understand why an archaic, difficult-to-explain, compass points system still survives in any form.
Every mariner understands the compass is marked in degrees (not points) so there’s an easy-to-understand alternative. I was trained this way from the start.
Relative bearings are simply referred to as for example red 30 for … you work it out.
Clock and compass point versions are abominations and damned unnautical and have no place aboard ships.
That’s Bollocks.
That’s bollocks.
Tankers use point system, most understand the clock better though, but unprofessional IMO. I like traditional shit though so that’s just me.
Why bother?
Forgive me but I’ve never heard of this point system as an actual official “Points System” in this regard with nice diagrams and all. Basic things like starboard beam/quarter etc are easily understood and remain in regular use. The “points” are nevertheless identical to the compass points with different names. Why? You are still creating a system where none is needed.
Even schoolgirls understand the 360 degrees of the circle. They would have to have explained the benefit of a 11.25 degree point to a more simply understood and already understood degrees down each side of the ship.
BTW I was never referring to any old names eg NNE which are not relative bearings. Simply the use of the same angle as a “point” which is indistinguishable from the nearby 10 degrees by any user of the system.
I don’t mean to start another war, so sorry for inadvertently stepping on toes. I was simply surprised that only two alternatives were compared neither of which I think is as good as this one.
Actually @Hornblower can shove his toes under a truck with his strange non-argument response.
As a sprog I had to “box” the compass in quarter points and old compasses did not have degrees. As pointed out the British and Commonwealth Navies used degrees red or green relative to right ahead. The clock system seems more familiar to seamen from developing countries and I believe is what is taught in most presea schools. Finally where I live surrounded by farmers it’s back to NE or SW.
Each to his own I can work it out.
I can probably count on one hand the number of ships I’ve piloted to anchor that have used the ‘points’ methodology. The ‘clock’ way is by far more prevalent.
Points, though, are still largely used to describe targets as passed on by the lookout so the idea/understanding of them is certainly not dead.
I suppose if the goal is simply to have clear communications that everybody (including the brand-new OS) can understand, I’d be using the clock system. It’s least likely to fail. I always thought that the points system-- either on the compass or used for relative bearings was a bit rubbish.
My argument/orders are backed up by the merchant seamen’s manual using the point system.
On a modified OSV turned into a seismic boat over the VHF, I heard a former deepsea AB try to use the point system to recover a buoy. The GOM, hawespiper mate asked the former deepsea AB what in the hell he was talking about. The AB replied, the point system or something like that. The mate told the AB to use the K.I.S.S method instead. After about 2 minutes, long enough for the AB to ask someone what K.I.S.S meant probably, the AB started to doing the “o’clock” method.
This was in the '90’s when many knew what points, clock & K.I.S.S systems stood for.
Sounds like the clock method has been, over time, displacing the point system for anchor work.
That makes sense, the clock system is simpler and more intuitive which means less cognitive workload.
For communications shorter messages with distinct words are more robust. Compare the message “chain’s (or cable) leading three points to starboard” to “chain’s leading two o’clock.”
Not much difference maybe but in a tight spot every little bit helps.
I assume you mean the American Merchant Seaman’s Manual? That may not be a strong authority for international practice.
The 1965 (5th) edition of the Merchant Marine Officers’ handbook sez this:
And when reporting the bearing of a shore light to the Captain, give him, besides the bearing, the number of degrees on the bow.
That sounds like points. Further on in the handbook, there’s a table for convering points to degrees.
The 1989 (6th) edition does not include any of that.
(I knew if I held on to those old books I’d eventually have use for them).