Alright, Mr. Hamilton. You have been puton notice. If you want support fromus, you had better be interactive on here. The alternative is not pretty. Pissed off sailors generally hurt people.
I have come to believe the entire bunch behind this AMPA are completely obtuse and have no clue of who the real working US mariner even is? All you have to do is look at the backgrounds of their executive board to see they ain’t us! There is no workboat element at all to their board yet workboat mariners outnumber deepsea mariners by likely 10 to 1 in the US. They are also heavy in KP ringknockers yet do not have hawsepipers on their board however hawsepipe mariners outnumber their academy brothers by likely the same ratio. There can never be a truly all inclusive association of mariners in the US if the leadership of any such association does not know of all mariners nor understand their world. I do not believe the AMPA understands very much at all concerning the real US maritime industry.
The alternative is not pretty. Pissed off sailors generally hurt people.
only hurt I want to do to them is financially
btw seadog my shipmate…you should go back and remove the thanks you left for the esteemed Mr. Hamilton…I really do not believe you meant to thank him did you?
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just getting this thread back onto the current threads page…I am really quite disappointed at the gall of this APMA to call themselves a mariner’s association when they appear to have no intent of becoming anything of the sort. I feel my call for an association of US mariners has now been subverted to something blatantly commercial and how feel that I have been ripped off because they even took the name I proposed. Pure coincidence or something else?
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[QUOTE=captjamied;154748]Having searched extensively online for info regarding the American Professional Mariners Association ( AND their 501 ©(3), the American Professional Mariners Association Foundation) organization…the jury seems to be in and the verdict is unfavorable. Although the “officers, executives, and board members” seem to be real enough (hard to tell…), their website, even after joining and logging in, seems to be an empty shell of useless information and glistening generalities…shocker.
The only real benefit I can discern from joining the APMA would be to lighten your wallet, thus making you float that much higher in the water…
They have the same mailing address as this place: http://www.energy-three.com/complete-project-financing/
…and here: http://www.celticshipping.com/[/QUOTE]
Same mailing address because it is a Regus office. They provide low cost office services. . .
I just wish to point out to my brother American mariners that
one: Tim Hamilton has not answered my questions from Sunday
and
two: the APMA still has a foreign flagged ship on its homepage
HOW UTTERLY PATHETIC ARE THESE PEOPLE?
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It has already been pointed out in this thread, and surely they understand, that for any organization purporting to be for the professional mariner their greatest access to those mariners is through gCaptain. Perhaps the forum, as Rob has pointed out, is not as widely read as the main site is, but they would do well to come on here and answer specific questions about who they are and what they do. How can you claim to represent the mariner if you refuse to interact with him? One vague post, by the way, is [B]not[/B] interaction.
I repeat the call from [I]Tugs[/I] for Rob or Mike to reach out to these guys and give us an unbiased article about them. If they won’t interact with the mariner himself, maybe they will interact with the media.
I second that. We need someone to do an actual unbiased look into the organisation.
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It would make a great article.
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I still don’t know what the hell they do, or don’t do. Or what their goals are.
…I used to be a PI in one of my previous incarnations, anyone got enough miles to fly me out to Annapolis ?
NAW! I can see already they ain’t worth the effort. I don’t know what they are intending to become but both their website and the rather non answers provided by Mr. Hamilton have convinced myself already that they have no plan to be what I advocate so strongly for.
one thing I am very puzzled by it this throwaway statement by Tim Hamilton
The APMA recognized a key need due to changes in retirement programs and partnered with FINRA (the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority Foundation) to provide unbiased educational material for your retirement planning. Our first call to action is helping people learn to make good decisions for their personal welfare.
the only thing I can take away from this is that they want to become financial planners for mariners which is all fine and good if any mariners need a specialized financial planner but I sure as hell don’t because I have no money to do any planning with. What I object to is them using a name which indicates that they are becoming an “association” which I do not equate with being financial planners. To me the first thing they should do after they remove the Maersk EEE from their homepage would be to change their name to something like American Mariners Financial Services or something similar
Additionally, APMA offers programs on a web-based platform for you to find jobs, training, business links, and USCG requirements and news. Finally, the APMA website has a member directory and other fun stuff to keep it interesting.
this is just in the face of what John Konrad started so successfully with this site here and is not something which is needed by us whether it is offered free or on a fee basis. Btw, what on earth do they mean by “fun stuff to keep it interesting”? Party games? Pin the tail on the Shittino? Bashing a huge Paul Watson pinata till it explodes?
Seems to me, looking at the names of the principals in their website, that Captain Jack Hearn is prominently mentioned. I’m sure that our AMO members here recognize that name and one of his reasons for his running for Pres was that AMO Plans froze their Pension Plan and instituted a 401(k) type plan. This looks to me to be financial on APMA’s part. Just guessing though.
That seemed like a canned response. I’m willing to wager that’s the same reply anyone who inquires, gets.
Interesting.
[QUOTE=c.captain;154940]
…Party games? Pin the tail on the Shittino? Bashing a huge Paul Watson pinata till it explodes?[/QUOTE]
You jest, but that would be worth $72 a year.
I am going to start without dissecting your post line by line but instead to ask three basic questions which I hope you will answer:
one: is it planned by the AMPA to sell or otherwise direct members to financial services or providers? This certainly appears to be an underlying direction the association is pursuing. How does it intend to assist members with their retirement planning if not to advertise Raymond James, Fidelity Investments, Charles Shwab or any of the many other financial advisory services already offering such services to the public? Does it have it have its own certified financial planners on its payroll? If it doesn’t, how can it in any way advise anyone concerning their investments? Does the AMPA plan to earn revenue from this “service” it intends to provide?
two: does the AMPA in any way, shape or form have any intention or plan to represent the interests of the American professional mariner with the USCG, MarAd or the US Congress? Does it intend at all to be representative of all American professional mariners as its name implies? If it does, explain how it will and why it believes if can be successful? If it does not please explain why it does not feel this is a necessary function of any such association? In order to be an association you must have members to be associated with the organization. Associations are formed so the individual voices of the members are spoken as one by the association’s leadership. How does the AMPA plan to be the “voice” of the American mariner?
three: does the AMPA leadership know it has a non US flagged ship on its homepage and does in intend to rectify this grave error?
.[/QUOTE]
Geez c.captain, why are you trying to nuke AMPA? They’re just trying to practice Capitalism, in the truest American tradition. Their limited knowledge of the Marine Industry is readily apparent by the picture of a Triple-E Class Maersk Ship posted on their web site. Nothing new among most mariner associations. Probably started by another group of academy graduates who don’t really want to go to sea.
The only real and dedicated mariners association without a hidden agenda I ever came across was the National Mariners Association. Capt. Richard Block fought tirelessly and with little thanks from the mariners he fought so hard for against ponderous Coast Guard Regulations. He didn’t waste his time spouting his opinions anonymously online. His work brought about real change in Coast Guard policy and regulations, all on a very meager budget.
It obvious that AMPA is a conduit to financial planning for mariners. Some mariners will find this service valuable. Frankly speaking, mariners can find this service without paying the $75 for membership. Second, how would you expect an organization such as AMPA to compete with the duffel bags of cash provided to Congress by big-money folks like the Koch brothers? The Brothers only real concern is their own selfish interest, just like most mariners.
I mean after 40+ years out here I can testify that most mariners wouldn’t contribute a dime to anyone except maybe their bar tender regarding their own interest at work. Many of them are deadbeat members of their own labor union. Mariners deserve the representation they get; good or bad!
Live and let live c.captain. [QUOTE=c.captain;154622]Ok Mr. Hamilton…
[QUOTE=Lookout;155012]Geez c.captain, why are you trying to nuke AMPA? They’re just trying to practice Capitalism, in the truest American tradition.[/QUOTE]
all I want is for them to change their name if their intention is not to form a true association of mariners but only to be a service to them. An association of mariners would have a representative function and APMA appears to have no intention to becoming that.
And the photo of the ship needs to go!
The silence from their end is deafening. The whole thing smells like shit. They’re watching our responses and hoping we get bored and they can move forward with their plan. Whatever that may be. If they were at all serious about this they would know we all drink at this bar. We aren’t inclined to go over to their new hipster joint and chat with them. The U.S. Mariners court of opinion convenes here. You wanna defend yourself do it here in this court room. You’re not asking for the company’s money you’re asking for ours and this is where we take our meetings. No appointment necessary…
I wonder how they can appoint all these admirals and executive officers without having members to actually vote them in? Total joke. Doesn’t look like much representation from the engine room either.
I don’t see what the big deal about financial planning is, why Mariners need a special deal? Save your money like a normal person. Don’t buy dumb shit with every penny you make.
No doubt we could use representation, I agree wholeheartedly. We do have an advocate in Congress through Rep. Elijah Cummings. But real representation cost money; lot’s of it. Can you envision mariners contributing enough of their own money to support such a worthy cause? I sincerely doubt any worthy organization would collect much more than penny’s on the dollar amount required to effectively represent mariners. Most mariners prefer the jelly-fish route, just get pushed along by the winds and currents of their respective employers and the Coast Guard. There isn’t much difference between the general population and mariners as a group.
Hell, recently I informed my shipmates of their opportunity to submit public comment on Sleep/Rest hours to the Coast Guard. The Coast Guard requested comments due Dec. 9, 2014 regarding soon to be Subchapter M vessels (towing vessels). It would only cost them a little time to write a comment yet not a single one could take time out from playing “Candy Crush” on their phones to submit a comment so important to their future. I don’t believe they would send any organization their money to advocate for themselves. Their apathy speaks volumes to others.
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;155020]The silence from their end is deafening. The whole thing smells like shit. They’re watching our responses and hoping we get bored and they can move forward with their plan. Whatever that may be. If they were at all serious about this they would know we all drink at this bar. We aren’t inclined to go over to their new hipster joint and chat with them. The U.S. Mariners court of opinion convenes here. You wanna defend yourself do it here in this court room. You’re not asking for the company’s money you’re asking for ours and this is where we take our meetings. No appointment necessary…[/QUOTE]
Fraq, my shipmate…I cannot thank you more sincerely for stating such clear and unambiguous words concerning this bunch of whatever they are…I wished I knew but have my suspicions. Their refusal to meet us on our ground says volumes in my mind. We’ve been here for years and they are just starting. We have standing and they don’t even have SHIT!
[QUOTE=Lookout;155025]No doubt we could use representation, I agree wholeheartedly. We do have an advocate in Congress through Rep. Elijah Cummings. But real representation cost money; lot’s of it. Can you envision mariners contributing enough of their own money to support such a worthy cause? I sincerely doubt any worthy organization would collect much more than penny’s on the dollar amount required to effectively represent mariners. Most mariners prefer the jelly-fish route, just get pushed along by the winds and currents of their respective employers and the Coast Guard. There isn’t much difference between the general population and mariners as a group…
I don’t believe they would send any organization their money to advocate for themselves. Their apathy speaks volumes to others. [/QUOTE]
one of the single biggest reasons I have not taken that giant step of putting out my shingle and forming that association I advocate so strongly for. I believe that I could be an effective voice for the American mariner but I would need support and the thought that I wouldn’t get shit for contributions is very frightening. If I had capital enough to fund it myself for a year or more then I might do it but to require at least 4000 others to each give me $75 ($300k/year is the minimum I feel is necessary to step up shop) each year makes a person stop dead in the water. 4000 people is a massive number to start something like this. I’d be lucky to get 400 but then I would not be able to deliver and forget collecting anything in following years. This ain’t an easy nut to crack!
Several of these people have lots of workboat experience although not specifically mentioned in the bio’s. Jack hearn senior worked on tugboats for years after he came home from fighting with the marines in korea.