Abandoning Ship while Power is still on

Professional Mariner Forum
1

I am starting this new thread to open a discussion on not only the sinking of the Spence but any other situation that could or did lead to having to consider abandoning the vessel.

There was a Picture posted on Facebook that showed the Spence going Down with what looked like the stern Flood Lights still burning while the sea condition looked to be near Flat Calm.

This Event brought back a lot of memories of the sinking of the OSG Valour. She also went down with Lights Burning. , While none of us were onboard either of these Tugs, I still have to wonder why what happened and why did they abandon Ship when they did?

As a CE, I have a hard problem understanding why they got off of a boat that still had power (and in the Spence event in GOOD Weather) without trying to do anything and everything before abandoning ship! Hell, I would have been pumping Fuel overboard. Now if they lost a Shaft then all bets are off.

In the Case of the OSG Valour, (I personally knew many of the Crew and lost someone that I knew really well), the pictures show them on the bow with what looks like smoke still coming from the stacks. What gets me is WHY in HELL did they not Hook her up and at least head for shallow water before it got to the point of having to get off? Also, I have a lot of questions about the Captain’s decisions. This comes from me knowing him personally and having sailed with him when he was a Mate.

So, here is my Question. What are your feelings on dealing with a condition such as the Valour and the Spence? Without having the knowledge of being there we can only speculate of what happened. What I am looking for is a discussion on what you would be trying and also when you would give up and get ready to get the hell off.

I have been in several instances where we started taking on water from either a hull leak (a wasted plate on a sea chest and having hatches come off on void spaces) that could have had a very different ending if we had not been very lucky. I am in NO way trying to make myself out as a SUPER Chief as I never considered myself like that, only that I was lucky in that everything worked out as it did and we were able to control the flooding and make back into port.

2

[QUOTE=Tugs;176022]I am starting this new thread to open a discussion on not only the sinking of the Spence but any other situation that could or did lead to having to consider abandoning the vessel.

There was a Picture posted on Facebook that showed the Spence going Down with what looked like the stern Flood Lights still burning while the sea condition looked to be near Flat Calm.

This Event brought back a lot of memories of the sinking of the OSG Valour. She also went down with Lights Burning. , While none of us were onboard either of these Tugs, I still have to wonder why what happened and why did they abandon Ship when they did?

As a CE, I have a hard problem understanding why they got off of a boat that still had power (and in the Spence event in GOOD Weather) without trying to do anything and everything before abandoning ship! Hell, I would have been pumping Fuel overboard. Now if they lost a Shaft then all bets are off.

In the Case of the OSG Valour, (I personally knew many of the Crew and lost someone that I knew really well), the pictures show them on the bow with what looks like smoke still coming from the stacks. What gets me is WHY in HELL did they not Hook her up and at least head for shallow water before it got to the point of having to get off? Also, I have a lot of questions about the Captain’s decisions. This comes from me knowing him personally and having sailed with him when he was a Mate.

So, here is my Question. What are your feelings on dealing with a condition such as the Valour and the Spence? Without having the knowledge of being there we can only speculate of what happened. What I am looking for is a discussion on what you would be trying and also when you would give up and get ready to get the hell off.

I have been in several instances where we started taking on water from either a hull leak (a wasted plate on a sea chest and having hatches come off on void spaces) that could have had a very different ending if we had not been very lucky. I am in NO way trying to make myself out as a SUPER Chief as I never considered myself like that, only that I was lucky in that everything worked out as it did and we were able to control the flooding and make back into port.[/QUOTE]

Excellent topic for discussion.

I think the natural instinct of old school mariners is to do everything possible to save the ship (including taking unreasonable risks) and to stay with the ship as long as possible. The instinct of “new school” mariners is to just get off the ship as soon as possible. Each approach obviously has its merits.

It’s would be easy and correct to say that it depends on the circumstances, but I think that usually gets overridden by the mariner’s mindset.

3

The post I saw on Facebook cryptically said the sinking was due to 'water coming from the #4 tanks.'
Did this boat have ballast tanks? Also, coming out of shipyard, was this because the hatches weren’t secure? The pic I saw shows the boat with a pretty severe list and partially submerged. Damned if you do damned if you don’t. I speculate that the crew may have figured best to get off while you can because they couldn’t make headway dewatering the boat or correcting the list?

Here is an article I found. From the looks of it sounds like spence may have remained in the position that pic shows on Facebook
http://www.newsmaritime.com/2015/us-tug-spence-sinking-in-caribbean-sea/

I’ve been fortunate…the closest I’ve come to a sinking was back when I was running crewboats. Had a rotten nipple going to the sea suction of one of the mains give out. It was in between the hull and the valve which means closing the valve wasn’t going to do much. We shut the motor down, squeezed a plug into the hole, covered with splash zone and a piece of hose. This slowed it down to a slow leak. Our bilge pump and trash pump was able to keep up with it till we got back to the dock to get assistance.

4

[QUOTE=tugsailor;176024]Excellent topic for discussion.

I think the natural instinct of old school mariners is to do everything possible to save the ship (including taking unreasonable risks) and to stay with the ship as long as possible. The instinct of “new school” mariners is to just get off the ship as soon as possible. Each approach obviously has its merits.

It’s would be easy and correct to say that it depends on the circumstances, but I think that usually gets overridden by the mariner’s mindset.[/QUOTE]

The best lifeboat you’ve got is the one you’re standing on, but ya gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, know when to run

5

The big items for me would be how long until help could arrive and how fast things were going bad. I do think the most important thing of all is the mind set before the incident though.

6

February 96 was in a sinking situation on an old rust bucket OSV. Long story short the shaft did not come completely undone from the gear but was partially off. When this happened the packing was damaged and water was pouring in faster than the emergency bilge suction could overcome. We also had a portable diaphragm pump and the fire pump through the bilge manifold going as well.

Eventually the water was up to the deck plates and the chief said nothing else we can do. We dogged the hatches and went to the galley to call the captain. The chief left both mains and a generator running. We were making way toward Baptiste Collette and shallow water. Eventually water got to the generator and the lights went out.

Well the captain never came down below to see how bad things were. Either he was in shock or thought we were overreacting. Either way he had never bothered to call the office. He told the rig we were having issues but not the office. We had pumped everything off to the rig so they didn’t really need us anymore and a front had set in. This was the dark ages prior to DP. Since it was 10-12 there was no way we were gonna tie up to the rig. They told us to head in and get things taken care of. So we were at full speed side sea into 10-12 when the power went out.

As he is smashing the button on the Necoder trying to get the office the mate is on the VHF shouting MAY DAY. Well all these radios are running off the same two 8D batteries which go damn near dead in short order. God knows the last time they were replaced. The captain goes out and pops a flare. As he keys the VHF mic you can see the display go dim. A half hour of getting flip flopped around like a county fair ride later and he pops another flare. It’s 0200 and we are all on the bridge with life jackets and a ziploc with car keys and wallets.

The mate sees a spot light swinging around like its looking for something in the distance. Captain pops another flare and hits the radio again. I guess they were close enough to hear us on reduced power now. It was the Jackie or Joan Chouest which was the ex Darryl or Dock Tide but I don’t remember which. They were old anchor boats bought off Tidewater due to some monopoly suit back in the day. Anyway as they get close the mate realizes we have a fully charged handheld sitting on the console. We now got good comms to the other boat. We go back and forth with all the usual info as they relay to the CG for us.

At daylight we have a jet fly over and drop us some stuff. A couple hours later a chopper lands a guy on deck to check us all out and see how things are going. We are down at the stern with maybe the last 15-20 feet of deck under water. The water level in the ER had reached that point of equilibrium so it wasn’t rising anymore. As I stated earlier we had fully unloaded at the rig. We had maybe 10k of diesel onboard and nothing else. All ballast, bulk tanks, mud tanks etc. were empty. Below deck the forward passageway and rudder room had been dogged down and were dry.

The office had sent a tug and another OSV to come rescue us. The tug got close enough now that the wx had laid off to pass us a portable diesel pump. A port captain showed up on a crewboat and boarded us. He brought another pump and some jugs of diesel. We pumped the engine room down on the way in to Venice. The other OSV got us in the hip and run us through Baptiste to the Shell dock.

We did not abandon ship but we’re ready to at a moments notice. I was a young QMED who was months away from getting his first DDE. This has always stuck with me because it was a very helpless feeling. We stayed with boat but I could only imagine how even more helpless we would have been in a raft in those wx conditions. In the aftermath I was told many stories of tugs and OSV’s that had sank, nearly sank or been fully engulfed in fire at sea. In a lot of those stories the boat was later found adrift. So I always consider that we will leave as a last resort. My first thought is not to just run and wait for help. At this point I had only been working offshore for about four months. I had spent the previous 4 years sailing deep sea with SIU. I was used to being on ships with multiple DC lockers and way better drills and planning. After this incident it was quickly forgotten as it was considered a normal occurrence. There were no lessons learned or fleet safety stand downs. In fact back in those days we never did any kind of damage control drilling at all. I realized that I personally needed to always have a plan in my mind to attempt to save our lives in those situations. The office and further the captains mindset was just abandon if you have to and we will find the boat or collect the insurance. I always thought my chances would fair better on the 180 ft steel boat than the raft.

7

[QUOTE=Fraqrat;176040]February 96 was in a sinking situation on an old rust bucket OSV. Long story short the shaft did not come completely undone from the gear but was partially off. When this happened the packing was damaged and water was pouring in faster than the emergency bilge suction could overcome. We also had a portable diaphragm pump and the fire pump through the bilge manifold going as well.

Eventually the water was up to the deck plates and the chief said nothing else we can do. We dogged the hatches and went to the galley to call the captain. The chief left both mains and a generator running. We were making way toward Baptiste Collette and shallow water. Eventually water got to the generator and the lights went out.

Well the captain never came down below to see how bad things were. Either he was in shock or thought we were overreacting. Either way he had never bothered to call the office. He told the rig we were having issues but not the office. We had pumped everything off to the rig so they didn’t really need us anymore and a front had set in. This was the dark ages prior to DP. Since it was 10-12 there was no way we were gonna tie up to the rig. They told us to head in and get things taken care of. So we were at full speed side sea into 10-12 when the power went out.

As he is smashing the button on the Necoder trying to get the office the mate is on the VHF shouting MAY DAY. Well all these radios are running off the same two 8D batteries which go damn near dead in short order. God knows the last time they were replaced. The captain goes out and pops a flare. As he keys the VHF mic you can see the display go dim. A half hour of getting flip flopped around like a county fair ride later and he pops another flare. It’s 0200 and we are all on the bridge with life jackets and a ziploc with car keys and wallets.

The mate sees a spot light swinging around like its looking for something in the distance. Captain pops another flare and hits the radio again. I guess they were close enough to hear us on reduced power now. It was the Jackie or Joan Chouest which was the ex Darryl or Dock Tide but I don’t remember which. They were old anchor boats bought off Tidewater due to some monopoly suit back in the day. Anyway as they get close the mate realizes we have a fully charged handheld sitting on the console. We now got good comms to the other boat. We go back and forth with all the usual info as they relay to the CG for us.

At daylight we have a jet fly over and drop us some stuff. A couple hours later a chopper lands a guy on deck to check us all out and see how things are going. We are down at the stern with maybe the last 15-20 feet of deck under water. The water level in the ER had reached that point of equilibrium so it wasn’t rising anymore. As I stated earlier we had fully unloaded at the rig. We had maybe 10k of diesel onboard and nothing else. All ballast, bulk tanks, mud tanks etc. were empty. Below deck the forward passageway and rudder room had been dogged down and were dry.

The office had sent a tug and another OSV to come rescue us. The tug got close enough now that the wx had laid off to pass us a portable diesel pump. A port captain showed up on a crewboat and boarded us. He brought another pump and some jugs of diesel. We pumped the engine room down on the way in to Venice. The other OSV got us in the hip and run us through Baptiste to the Shell dock.

We did not abandon ship but we’re ready to at a moments notice. I was a young QMED who was months away from getting his first DDE. This has always stuck with me because it was a very helpless feeling. We stayed with boat but I could only imagine how even more helpless we would have been in a raft in those wx conditions. In the aftermath I was told many stories of tugs and OSV’s that had sank, nearly sank or been fully engulfed in fire at sea. In a lot of those stories the boat was later found adrift. So I always consider that we will leave as a last resort. My first thought is not to just run and wait for help. At this point I had only been working offshore for about four months. I had spent the previous 4 years sailing deep sea with SIU. I was used to being on ships with multiple DC lockers and way better drills and planning. After this incident it was quickly forgotten as it was considered a normal occurrence. There were no lessons learned or fleet safety stand downs. In fact back in those days we never did any kind of damage control drilling at all. I realized that I personally needed to always have a plan in my mind to attempt to save our lives in those situations. The office and further the captains mindset was just abandon if you have to and we will find the boat or collect the insurance. I always thought my chances would fair better on the 180 ft steel boat than the raft.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, great story. . . I am happy to say that while working at sea, I don’t recall any situations where we had any downflooding or other that would have had us close to sinking. . . about the worst thing that I recall was getting ejected from the notch with a Bludworth system. . . Holy Geez O’ Pete. . . that was some banging. . . . and a real fun ride, too. . .

8

Geeze…with some of the worn-out vessels I’ve sailed, salvaged or resuscitated in various shit-holes of the world, my guardian angel walks with a limp.
My first voyage on a mud boat in early ‘70 was memorable. I was sitting on the tater box of a 150’ Burton hull built in 1956 as we cleared South Pass. Tandem 6-110 GMs. Smoke billowed out of the aft stacks as did the engineer. The only switch to start the fire pump was in the E/R. No CO2 system. We all panicked except the old Captain. We were dead in the water and the captain strolled out on to the main deck with a cup of coffee. I frantically asked what I was supposed to do. Capt Frank said, “I don’t know about you but I’m gonna make a fresh pot of coffee before we loose power”. He walked over to the stacks and drops the vent covers and steps back into the galley. He had already notified the Shell dispatcher and 2 stand-by boats were there within an hour to cool us off and tow us in. As cool as he was, I remember thinking, is this the norm in the oilfield?

9

Being a CE on a sister ship of the Valour I read about that catastrophe as much as I could in an attempt to learn from their mistakes. If the report is true, I agree with the NTSB/USCG conclusion. The report reads like a tragic comedy. The Master called for a vote to abandon ship or not? Never did the crew muster together to come up with a plan of action. One man died because of medical reasons & some of the crew neglected to mention it to the everyone else. The CE or assistant was ballasting to the wrong side of the vessel. At least one of the crew members became catatonic during the emergency. They had the fuel crossover open & some crew was so out of shape a popped paper bag could have caused them to go into cardiac arrest. What I learned from reading the NTSB report was not to sail with a bunch of dumbasses. If your captain seems like a guy to call a paniced vote in the middle of an emergency, go to another boat or look for another captain. If members of your crew can’t make it to the wheelhouse without taking a breather on each level, get new crew because they will be a liability when it is the most important. Another story of dumbasses at sea causing unnecessary deaths is the jack-up Trinity II, same type of tragic comedy. Idiot shipmates can be fun, nice guys that everyone loves but being at sea, you are putting your life in their hands.

10

Happy Holidays to All, Having sunk and salvaged more than my share of Tugs and barges I gotta say the best lines ever were, 1) Hey Cap, I got some good news and some bad news. “What’s the good news?” The good news is that the bilge water is about to put out the electrical fire, the bad news is that we’re going down. 2) Cap, The deck generators on fire! “What are you bothering me for, put it out!” 3). Stuff a freakin rag in it! I got the credit for sinking a tug a week after reading the story of the “Sinking of the Tug Valor”. Hydrostatic equalization works fore and aft as well as thwartships, just add water…Oops…

11

The idiot shipmate was C/E Smoot, your compatriot that couldn’t read his own valve positions. As both an engineer and a driver I’m guessing you’re not.

12

[QUOTE=Oil_Is_Evil;176074]The idiot shipmate was C/E @@@@ , your compatriot that couldn’t read his own valve positions. As both an engineer and a driver I’m guessing you’re not.[/QUOTE]

I remove the name from the post that I quoted as I do not think it was right to name him.

I have my own opinions of the man and I did work with him. I hope that you go back and remove the name, If not hopefully John or Mike will do it.

This thread was not created so people could slammed the DEAD and any and all names should not be posted.

13

In the interest of Holiday Harmony I tried, but no joy on the edit. (Too late). I apologize, and request that you accept my apology.

14

The man’s name is readily available in the USCG/NTSB reports. Nearly everyone in the maritime industry knows it by now. Not sure what hiding his name would accomplish.