Refuting Ombugge's left wing rhetoric

I though SF was the ultimate of left wing cities by US standard??

Imagine if nobody threatened anybody else with nukes?
Imagine if we could dismantle all such weapons worldwide an unlearn how to make them?
That is “Pie in the sky” as long as we have people in power who think that the only way to protect yourself is by having the ability to kill everybody else.
The only good thing with nukes is that using them means getting killed as well. (MAD), thus only a megalomaniac, or totally ignorant fool would use them.

Let’s hope we don’t ever get anybody that crazy in a position of power to start a nuclear war.

No civilizations fails from any one cause. The more brutal authoritarian societies tend to not last long. Hitler and the third reich are a recent example. Roman Empire lasted about 500 years but was done in by military over reach and resultant economic problems, corruption, the spread of unrest from Christianity , dependence on slavery, privatizing the military thru the use of mercenaries and shifting populations. Empires don’t last long historically. The British know this and the USA will learn this. It’s an expensive lesson.

Absolutely it is… And yet it’s still too right wing for you due to your fear of it’s armed crazies…soooo, yeah

The Israelis are a perfect example. They bombed their neighbors (and murdered their scientists) to prevent them from getting nukes. Iraq in 1981, Syria in 2007, Iran from 2010-2012. Brutal and effective.

Of course now days the Israeli military has superiority with conventional means alone so it’s arguable the nukes aren’t needed anyhow. Either way it’s peace from the end of a gun.

Anybody that aren’t afraid of armed crazies are CRAZY!!

Well you’re closer to the truth than many by acknowledging that the US is a brutal empire, but the historical comparison is completely wrong. None of these empires was undone by “going soft”. The Mongols were a pastoral culture who had a pretty light touch once they were in control. They were never governance wizards and didn’t try to be. They conquered brutally but then pretty much just kept the peace internally, so they maintained Chinese governance structures in China, but the Golden Horde and Ilkhanate collapsed pretty quickly because they were ahistorical agglomerations of peoples with no legitimacy other than force propping up the ruler. Once dynastic successors
separated by thousands of miles took over there was no way to stop each other from seceding from the unified body. And the independent “Tartar” remnant states in Europe at least were plenty brutal until they were defeated by a strong Russian state that was able to subdue them systematically.

The (western) Romans, closest to the US today, certainly didn’t go soft. They had an increasing frenzy of coups and assassinations compounded by serious plagues in the third century, but strong emperors with a huge bureaucracy were able to turn things around in the fourth century to make up for the loss of autonomy and loyal governors in the provinces. Unfortunately this system of increased centralization worked with strong, competent, engaged emperors and not with, say, weird demented rich boys who had no idea what they were doing (as well as literal child emperors). There was a shortage of Romans willing to enlist in the military voluntarily leading to a dependence on “barbarians” who got citizenship and great pensions for 20 year terms of enlistment, but there’s no evidence they underperformed. The military was in fact the single largest institution by far, consuming 80% or so of their total budget. I’m sure none of this sounds familiar to the MAGA types in this thread.

The Aztecs, who maintained dominance by brutality alone, hated by all the peoples they dominated, turned out to be extremely susceptible to viral hepatitis or smallpox or whatever killed most of them off and destroyed a lot of the court’s ability to make a coordinated response to internal rebellion and really luckily-timed Spanish adventurers who showed up when Quetzalcoatl was supposed to, i.e. heaven-endorsed conquistadors.

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It’s a very uneasy peace, with fear all around.
Living with fear of your neighbours and people of other races and religions are not the type of peace most people want.
To have to arm yourself for protection, whether personally or as a nation, is not an ideal situation. Unfortunately there are still too many places where people feel the need to do so.

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We’ll see. Nobody’s challenged them yet. The only data point we have of someone challenging them is in the South China Sea where Vietnam, the Philippines, and others have challenged their overreaching territorial claims all the way to the international court. China’s response? Double middle fingers to those countries AND the international court as well as continued reef building.

I don’t see where you, bugge, or anyone else get your confidence that China will be this benevolent superpower once they get in the driver’s seat.

The irony of people saying “globalist” and “cuck” in this thread is that Steve Bannon’s “economic nationalism” would necessarily mean some kind of industrial policy, which the US has never had partly because of an irrational fear of communism.

In a vacuum, such a policy would definitely be better than the status quo because it would mean taxing the rich more heavily and putting a stop to the systematic exporting of American jobs and so the gap between rich and poor in America would be necessarily lessened. The problem is that this right-wing populism is tinged with white nationalism and even more global militarism than we already have. With Bannon out, we got the white nationalism and increased militarism, plus a half-assed, hamfisted trade policy, and in place of actually improving the country we get dime-store patriotism, while the same capitalist class continues to profit unabated with gigantic tax cuts with no economic rationale.

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Because they don’t have a history of military aggression against their neighbours, nor any interest in taking on the responsibility and cost of being the world hegemon. Their interest is trade and security, but not by projecting military power outside their area of influence.

They use money and soft power to a much more efficient degree than USA and Europe by not coming with an attitude of superiority, at least outward.

The days when China was weak and had to bow to gun boat “diplomacy” by arrogant westerners has not been forgotten, or forgiven.

The Chinese way of getting revenge is different and may take a long time. By the time most westerners even understand that they have been “had”, the Chinese will control the world of commerce and trade without firing a shot.

You may think that is weakness, but the Chinese have survived for thousands of years by absorbing their enemies and conquerors, while the west has only held world hegemony for a couple of centuries. The way the Chinese sees it, they are just taking back their rightful position in the world.

I’d be the first to acknowledge that what we got when we got Trump is far from ideal but at least it’s a start. The same ol same ol status quo and the resulting 70 years of “accomplishments” has gotten us to financial, societal, and moral breaking points such that we are really going to have to decide what and who we’re going to be as a country moving forward. I think the next 2 and maybe 3 election cycles will show the answer to that question.

Until US citizens understand how their own government works nothing will change. Most outsiders understand that frustration with the status quo got Trump elected. But they are amazed that the same people that voted for Trump reelected their “representatives” and expected change.

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More people are beginning to understand every day. Nothing will change until campaign funding is limited to one vote, one (small < $1000) contribution. No corporate funding, no PAC funding of advertising, no other contribution of any kind other than registered voters knocking on doors for the candidate they are legally allowed to vote for.

Give elections back to the people. End legalized bribery and congressional corruption. Who does your representative really represent today?

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The US has ‘lost’ in Iraq because the plan for the occupation and rebuilding of the country consisted of a post-it note with “Its ok - Chalabi will sort something out” scrawled on it in crayon.

Why do you hate America so much that you imagine the mass murder of millions is a conceivable policy?

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There was never a strategic long term plan for Iraq, just as there is no strategic long term plan for Afghanistan. The average US citizen has no idea what their country is trying to achieve and when it will be achieved. Soon there will be US citizens fighting in a war in Afghanistan that began before they were born. Over 60% of the USA’s discretionary spending is for war that no one has a clue as to when it when it will end or what the goal is or was. The only way to feel better about this is to buy stock in a company like General Dynamics, Raytheon, Boeing etc. At least you might get a little return on your tax investment.

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So quite obviously the military power of USA is there to get control of whatever loote is possible, or at least to block lawful trading arrangement between sovereign stats that doesn’t bow to the one and only imperial Superpower left on earth.
As an added bonus you can “contain” your perceived enemies of Iran and China.

To admit that none of them are any REAL threat to the security of the US Homeland would be unthinkable. It may upset the lucrative “defence” business of the oligarchs that actually control “The Swamp” in Washington, which is not good for the American workers. (Or so you are told to believe)

They may refuse to accept American leadership, though, which is a threat .to American hegemony and the bank accounts of the same Billionaires.

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Turn on your TV and watch Okkupert —- things would be worse than that without the US protecting Norway.

I had never heard of this TV serie before.
From the brief preview it sounds far fetched that Russia would occupy Norway on the behest of EU, but in fiction everything is possible.

Like that Russia take control of USA by manipulating an election and install a gullible President:

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While looking for a link to the TV serie Amerika I came across this German music video, also called Amerika.
Enjoy, although the lyrics are mostly in German:

If you haven’t got the time or inclination to watch it on Youtube, here is at least an explanation and some reflections on the content in Politico: