I was just reading a write up on all of the proposed changes coming to the Un-Inspected towing vessels. After reading the entire thing one thing jumped out at me. They mentioned that some of the vessels will not be able to meet the new regulation plus the cost of the new regulations might / will drive the cost to run these vessels up which will be passed on the the customers. Now the good part, this might OPEN THE DOOR TO BRING FOREIGN VESSELS IN TO JONES ACT TRADE. Now it has me thinking is this entire evolution of making these vessels inspected is just another way to try and get Foreign Crewed Towing Vessels into Jones Act Trade.
[QUOTE=c.captain;87448]I would love nothing more than to be that voice in Washington for all of us but the question is I need a base of financial support that comes from no other source but the mariners themselves. The sad reality is that I do not believe that I can get enough mariners willing to put forth the $$$ because nothing in Washington would ever be able to change without being able to lobby the Administration and the Congress. The various unions are supposed to do this for “all” mariners behalf but its pretty clear now that they put their own interests first and really care nothing for mariners who are not members since nonunion mariners contribute nothing to their fat bank accounts.
As soon as one dollar is accepted from any group other than the mariners, the system will become corrupted since then those interests will want their agendas to come first. If there in any hope for an association, then the mariner will have to be the ONLY interest of the association to represent. Would 5000 mariners in the US be willing to contribute $100 a year? If there were, then there is a chance that our voice could be heard in Washington.
comments?[/QUOTE]
There is an association that represents the independant truck drivers similar to what you are speaking of. It is called the OOIDA, “owner operator independant drivers assocation”. It is a small fee to join and gets paid every year. they have a PAC in there own name, that they ask for donations to support, and it seems to work fairly well for them. I would gladly put up the 100 bucks a year, if we could get a assocation started kind of like that or a model similar, I know I would support it 150%
[QUOTE=ChiefRob;87453]There is an association that represents the independant truck drivers similar to what you are speaking of. It is called the OOIDA, “owner operator independant drivers assocation”. It is a small fee to join and gets paid every year. they have a PAC in there own name, that they ask for donations to support, and it seems to work fairly well for them. I would gladly put up the 100 bucks a year, if we could get a assocation started kind of like that or a model similar, I know I would support it 150%
Any one else???[/QUOTE]
I will look at them as a possible model but I actually have to say that it is John Konrad who has the greatest ability to make such an association a reality, but he has always declined previously when I have made the proposal. As much as money is critical to any potential success so it the ability to connect with the mariner and to form them into a cohesive group. That is one thing which John, Rob and Mike have done here in the past 5 years which in my opinion has changed the landscape for us mariners. It is why am such a passionate contributor (that and I really like to use my pointy stick whenever I can!). We can all learn so much more about our industry by sharing and passing our own unique knowledge to our fellows and to also learn from their experience. I honestly believe that alone gCaptain is that medium which positive change can stem from and perhaps a combination of a professional mariners association with the site as an unofficial team to support the mariner is what it will take? Lots of possibilities if we all work to make it reality.
It would be nice to have some kind of US Mariner advocacy group without the requirement of joining a union.
When it comes to waivers for foreign personnel, I thought that they have to apply for one for each position they intend to fill with a foreigner and that it has to be renewed on an annual basis. Does anyone know if this will have a potentially large effect or if it will only be of minimal impact?
[QUOTE=Kougar018;87498]It would be nice to have some kind of US Mariner advocacy group without the requirement of joining a union. [/QUOTE]
Having some kind of advocacy group does not require membership in a union but it’s going to cost you. The oil rig companies have many big dollar advocacy groups but they are not unions. Mariners could have the same thing though if they did it might be considered union and therefore subversive, socialist, terrorist or the like. You do just like the industry groups, you collect money from the members, pay it to lobbyists and they pay the lawmakers which is how business works. You just got to make sure you have enough money to buy what you want from the politician or enough members to scare them into seeing things your way by losing a lot of votes if they don’t.Without either one of those two things you are screwed.
[QUOTE=tengineer;87504]Having some kind of advocacy group does not require membership in a union but it’s going to cost you. The oil rig companies have many big dollar advocacy groups but they are not unions. Mariners could have the same thing though if they did it might be considered union and therefore subversive, socialist, terrorist or the like. You do just like the industry groups, you collect money from the members, pay it to lobbyists and they pay the lawmakers which is how business works. You just got to make sure you have enough money to buy what you want from the politician or enough members to scare them into seeing things your way by losing a lot of votes if they don’t.Without either one of those two things you are screwed.[/QUOTE]
I can’t think of any other way that I could have said this better teng. If you’re going to get anything at all done in Washington, you have to pay to play and then not forget that there all the ravenous sharks swimming in that stinking cesspool all wanting to devour each other so it is a battle of epic proportions for anyone who wades in to that filthy water that is our Nation’s capital. A $5M annual budget leaves not much left over for the mandatory “purely voluntary” contributions to influential congresspersons after expenses are met but it would be a start. At least you could testify in front of all the right committees and be “on the record”.
“Oh the effing sharks babe has such teeth dear and they shows them pearly white.
Just a pointy stick has c.captain dear and he doesn’t keep it outta sight”
The “mariners advocacy group” maybe could be started like the AMA or Lawyers Bar Association or Dental Society. Not a union, but all mariners in it together
deck, engine, oficer and crew and even inland waters. This would have mariners at least have a bigger group, which equals a voice. Right now unions are broken up into deck, engine crew and officers, and each union is a small voice and weak.
Think about it most professions have a “group” that reresents their interests.
There are such associations in the world and the one that comes to mind as being one of the best examples if Nautilus UK or NUMAST but they also function as a union so that part would have to stripped off and an association be more of a pure advocacy group to represent the interests of the professional maritime community. Any whiff of union then the idea is DOA. The unions and companies both would get their long knives out and cut any new association to ribbons if they at all feel threatened. In fact, they’d probably get their long knives out anyway just because you are treading on their turf. We live in a world were the interests with the greatest amount of money get the loudest voice so I am a realist and believe any professional Amercian mariners association would have maybe a 25% chance of long term survival. It would depend on who leads it and how many members (vis. $$$) can be recruited.
In all honesty, I am not the man to be the master of such a ship as this. I don’t have the political skills to pull it off. I am too much of a Foghorn loudmouth snook. Personally I have always believed John Konrad to be the best man for the job. He really has everything needed to be successful. He’s certainly got the smarts and is an articulate writer and speaker. He has national recognition by the industry and media. He has the megaphone (gCaptain) and most importantly, the credibility to be taken seriously by the fine folks in Washington. I’d be ground into bloody hamburger there but believe that I could do a good job as an advisor and keeper of the pointy stick!
There is already one group out there, the National Mariners Association. They used to be called the Gulf Coast Mariners Association. They are not a union either. They represent the mariners under 1600 tons. I am a member. There are quite a few things they promote which I strongly disagree with (smoking policy for one) but I think what they do is needed and so I support them anyway. I don;t think they have much influence in DC but they do lobby congress and the USCG. They only charge Maybe we could build on what they have done already. I’m sure some of you on here must know about them. How come no one has mentioned them yet?
Speaking as a non US mariner I have had people ask me on board and in the office many times when they see a CV with USCG license less than unlimited capt/mate 2nd mate they dont understand what all the other tonnage stuff is?
I have mentioned this here before you have tickets saying 1600/3000 ITC etc what does that mean under STCW-95?
Then you add all the endorements in your red book that as far as a foreigner is concerned you should have done to get the ticket, its very confusing to those outside the US.
Many of your required endorsements, medial care at sea ( the old Captains medical), fire fighting, gmdss etc dont expire like they do in the rest of the world less you show sea time.
Fix this problem and you have fixed a large prejudice to US seaman trouble is with the USCG making rules to suit the local vessel operators and not the seaman they have crippled many of you internationally.
I feel sorry for your situation that was not created by yourselves.
I have worked with many 30ish yrd old unlimited masters ( Brits, Ozzies, Italians, Germans, Croatians, Indians, Norwegians etc( who all had DP tickets), how easy is it to do that in the US as a matter of interest?
PS I dont think there is any other blog like this where foreign guys need to ask so many questions to navigate a system built in a country they grew up in just to find out about their own license details and requirements.
Many countries will let anyone get their license ( I understand why the US doesnt, thats not my point) and its very simple for them to understand can you imagine a foreigner attempting to find out about the US system whilst looking at your CV while they are crewing up a vessel/semi should they not be US mariners?
[QUOTE=c.captain;87557]Hey I do have a reputation to uphold and if you can’t laugh at yourself first you don’t have a right to laugh at anybody else![/QUOTE]
I thought that was Ensign Parkers job?
cheers
[QUOTE=powerabout;87600]Speaking as a non US mariner I have had people ask me on board and in the office many times when they see a CV with USCG license less than unlimited capt/mate 2nd mate they dont understand what all the other tonnage stuff is?
I have mentioned this here before you have tickets saying 1600/3000 ITC etc what does that mean under STCW-95?
Then you add all the endorements in your red book that as far as a foreigner is concerned you should have done to get the ticket, its very confusing to those outside the US.
Many of your required endorsements, medial care at sea ( the old Captains medical), fire fighting, gmdss etc dont expire like they do in the rest of the world less you show sea time.
Fix this problem and you have fixed a large prejudice to US seaman trouble is with the USCG making rules to suit the local vessel operators and not the seaman they have crippled many of you internationally.
I feel sorry for your situation that was not created by yourselves.
I have worked with many 30ish yrd old unlimited masters ( Brits, Ozzies, Italians, Germans, Croatians, Indians, Norwegians etc( who all had DP tickets), how easy is it to do that in the US as a matter of interest?
PS I dont think there is any other blog like this where foreign guys need to ask so many questions to navigate a system built in a country they grew up in just to find out about their own license details and requirements.
Many countries will let anyone get their license ( I understand why the US doesnt, thats not my point) and its very simple for them to understand can you imagine a foreigner attempting to find out about the US system whilst looking at your CV while they are crewing up a vessel/semi should they not be US mariners?[/QUOTE]
Obviously you have discovered that the American mariner is in no way an international mariner as most Europeans are but I say it is less from the USCG not upholding the letter of the STCW Convention than it is out of prejudice (not always undeserved) and because every US citizen mariner has the right to sue a shipowner for damages under the unseaworthiness doctrine in the Jone’s Act (Merchant Marine Act of 1920). This right is blanket and covers the mariner on any foreign vessel he might serve upon even if it is outside of US waters at the time of the injury. He can bring the complaint against a foreign owner in a US Federal Court under Admiralty procedure and any award of damages to the seaman can cause any of that vessel owner’s assets to have a lien placed upon it if is in the US, thus if a ship that owner has calls at a US port, the US Federal Marshall will go to the dock and arrest it. That ship can’t sail until the judgement is settled even if the case in is in appeal or at least a substantial bond must be put into place.
Why on earth would you want to hire an American with this sword of Damocles hanging over your neck?
[QUOTE=Skoidat69;87435]We need some lobbyists … I’m nominating C.Captain[/QUOTE]
I will decline to run if nominated and refuse to serve if elected!
I nominate John Konrad to start this ball rolling. He can do this for us and still does not have to run the show. All he has to just be is its visible wise and benevolent leader and be the suit to testify before the Congress and USCG. He can find others to soil themselves flinging the stinking ooze at the bastards in Washington DC (I’m always game for a good nasty no rules knifefight…as my businesscard reads “Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap”!)
[QUOTE=JP;87584]There is already one group out there, the National Mariners Association. They used to be called the Gulf Coast Mariners Association. They are not a union either. They represent the mariners under 1600 tons. I am a member. There are quite a few things they promote which I strongly disagree with (smoking policy for one) but I think what they do is needed and so I support them anyway. I don;t think they have much influence in DC but they do lobby congress and the USCG. They only charge Maybe we could build on what they have done already. I’m sure some of you on here must know about them. How come no one has mentioned them yet?[/QUOTE]
The problem there is that they are stained from when unions tried to muscle into the GoM (weren’t they the front for the unions?) and they don’t have a megaphone. If you aren’t heard then you just aren’t there. That is what has made gCaptain a potentially transformative force in this. If you don’t read it or participate in the forum yourself, you likely work with those who do and mariners do talk about this shit. Word does spread.
[QUOTE=c.captain;87646]The problem there is that they are stained from when unions tried to muscle into the GoM (weren’t they the front for the unions?) and they don’t have a megaphone. If you aren’t heard then you just aren’t there. That is what has made gCaptain a potentially transformative force in this. If you don’t read it or participate in the forum yourself, you likely work with those who do and mariners do talk about this shit. Word does spread.[/QUOTE]
It says on there home page that it was originally called the gulf coast mariners assocation, and formed by the AFL-CIO along with the help of 4 unions. I guess the unions gave up in 2003, pulled out, and they changed the name to what it is now. It says on there website it is not a union, but it obviously as some union ties or support, behind it. I remember when this was all going on in the Gulf, however I was working on a ferrin flag ship, and didn’t really get to see much of it. I do remember hearing that most of the bayou companies hired people to rally against it, and it stirred up a bunch of stink.
You don’t hear much out of them now days, so I can’t even speculate how loud loud there voice is, obviously not to loud, or you would hear alot more about them.
I don’t think any association that limits itself to only one class of mariners is going to accomplish much. If you want to succed you need everyone, with a z-card and up involved, to be effective. IMHO
