But most unlimited masters get that way by going to an academy then working on a ship where they never actually handle a boat.
The point he was making is that your bitching about engineers is the same. It’s the lack of practice.
But most unlimited masters get that way by going to an academy then working on a ship where they never actually handle a boat.
Agreed that men who make their careers on only deepsea vessels really never get to learn the craft of vessel handling since most of that dirty work is done by pilots with tugs at their disposal. Of course, they have no experience with smaller vessels which becomes all too apparent when they get a job on one. I am one of thos UL guys who has as much workboat seatime as deepsea so I can swing both right and left handed which I am proud to get to say. Many here will be shocked to hear me say it but I both respect and admire the captains who take those huge anchorhandlers into Halliburton slip and then turn them around in there! I can only imagine how huge those vessels seem from up on their bridges and that it must seem as if there is NO room for them in there. The closest I have come is taking knotship fish processors through that tiny little rockbound channel into Illiuliuk Bay to go alongside at the Unisea dock in Dutch Harbor. Don’t look right or left but just straight ahead or you’ll freak out at where the hell you are and that you’re going to hit something for sure!
.
[QUOTE=c.captain;66012]Negative sir…the idiot engineers I speak of are from wonderful places like Thibodeaux and are fuctionally illiterate yet get $700+ a day. It has nothing to do with lack of practice for these cretins but lack of adequate brain capacity.[/QUOTE]
The functionally illiterate have scared me less than the educated idiots that don’t know their limitations. The 3 scariest that come to mind are from Bellinghan, Galveston and NYC. But then I’m painting with your broad brush…
[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;65983]The point he was making is that your bitching about engineers is the same. It’s the lack of practice.[/QUOTE]
How come the “point” is always aimed at the unlimited master’s supposed inability to handle a small boat alongside a rig? I have been on 125,000 ton tankers while maneuvering at sea (to investigate a direlect boat) with equal skill but I can’t recall anyone commenting about how miserably a mud boat driver would have performed that maneuver had one been giving helm and wheel orders.
As far as engineers are concerned, the shadetree mechanic skills that many limited license holders bring to the floorplates are a good addition to the toolbox, but if they don’t have the level of formal training that imparts theoretical knowledge and troubleshooting skills their value to a modern vessel fitted with increasingly complex equipment is rapidly diminishing.
If your only tools are a spud wrench and a great big screwdriver, you will be seen as a liability and relegated to changing oil or handing tools to that service tech.
The point wasn’t “aimed” at unlimited masters but at c.captain who was bitching about engineers. The same thing applies, practice. You can learn all that trouble shooting from practice if you are competent and work with experienced people while theu trouble shoot problems. By not letting boat crews handle their own problems they are eliminating any chance of on the job training. The problem is that you need to have at least one person who can trouble shoot already working there but the companies dont seem to care about any of that.
[QUOTE=c.captain;65958]Aw…I put on my explosive vest this morning thinking I’d have to use it today, but worry not, I am not switching topics here. I just needed to poke my pointy stick at those most capable engineers out there these days. Maybe they can change a powerpack on an EMD but troubleshoot programming logic in a VFD![/QUOTE]
Can they at least recognize when one of the cross beams has gone out askew on the treadle?
That may be a tad too modern a reference for olde crusty bastards to get. You may have to change lexicon to the days of wooden ships and iron men. Just sayin’
[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;66048]You can learn all that trouble shooting from practice if you are competent and work with experienced people while theu trouble shoot problems.[/QUOTE]
That is called “monkey see, monkey do” and no matter how good the person being observed, if fundamental knowledge of theory and its application is missing that technique is no better than reading the troubleshooting page in the manual. If X =Y then do Z isn’t quite good enough.
There are people with thousands of hours watching Star Trek who will never be able to fix a flux drive.
I didn’t say watching, I said working with. That usually implies that once the head guy thinks you are competent he explains shit to you. School just explains it to you right off without making you do any of it.
[QUOTE=Steamer;66067]That is called “monkey see, monkey do” and no matter how good the person being observed, if fundamental knowledge of theory and its application is missing that technique is no better than reading the troubleshooting page in the manual. If X =Y then do Z isn’t quite good enough.
There are people with thousands of hours watching Star Trek who will never be able to fix a flux drive.[/QUOTE]
There is a troubleshooting page in the manual. Man, I am going to have to read one of those sometime.
You mean equipment comes with manuals? Man I need to learn how to read sometime. I thought they taught flux/warp drive theory at those academies.
That may be a tad too modern a reference for olde crusty bastards to get. You may have to change lexicon to the days of wooden ships and iron men. Just sayin’
Me, I’m a steam recip guy and if they still had them out there I might have become an engineer in the end. There’s something about all that machinery in motion like that this is a sight to witness. Of course, being an oiler and having to measure a con-rod bearing temp with the palm of your hand with the crank spinning is a bit hard to imagine.
I always wanted to do one of the underway days on one of the old Liberty ship museums just to experience that ballet of polished steel. Gonna have to do that one day.
Somwhere in my book collection, I have the original manual for a Liberty ship engine except I am afraid there is no troubleshooting section in it. On one of those monsters, if you can’t figure out what is wrong by just looking at it, then you have no business being there.
.
Anyway, back to the original subject at hand or should I say the debate that no KP cheerleader seems to have any guts to engage in anymore…
SOOO…because this is such a wonderful opportunity!
I fart in your general direction…your mother was a hampster and your father smelt of elderberries!
Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time-a
I especially love it when the duck falls on Arthur’s head! I can just picture Unilblab there 
Kings Point is literally such a pathetic comedy that the Monty Python parodies are endless and damn are they fun to post…give me a pointy stick and I’ll lead a crusade to deflate that riduculous farce of a place.
Until then, see all you sorry assed blokes in the funny papers…
.
After reading this thread one statement that I have used and heard used many times comes to mind.
Used when introducing a crew member that is a KP Grad. “He’s a Kings Pointer but he’s a good guy”
[QUOTE=c.captain;66078]Me, I’m a steam recip guy and if they still had them out there I might have become an engineer in the end. There’s something about all that machinery in motion like that this is a sight to witness. Of course, being an oiler and having to measure a con-rod bearing temp with the palm of your hand with the crank spinning is a bit hard to imagine.
I always wanted to do one of the underway days on one of the old Liberty ship museums just to experience that ballet of polished steel. Gonna have to do that one day.
Somwhere in my book collection, I have the original manual for a Liberty ship engine except I am afraid there is no troubleshooting section in it. On one of those monsters, if you can’t figure out what is wrong by just looking at it, then you have no business being there.
.[/QUOTE]
I have never had the pleasure of operating a steam recip engine other than those that ran pumps. I have always stated that I felt that I was an engineer on a steam ship and a mechanic/caretaker on a diesel vessel. That said, most of my seatime was on diesel tugs/ships. I tend to place more value on my time onboard steam plants, though. Freaking things are alive.
[QUOTE=Tugs;66154]After reading this thread one statement that I have used and heard used many times comes to mind.
Used when introducing a crew member that is a KP Grad. “He’s a Kings Pointer but he’s a good guy”[/QUOTE]
I used to get that some. . . . Well, until they got to know me, that is. . .
So wait is it true that c-capt is a drag queen ?
And I was so hoping this thread would just fade off to oblivion.
So wait - is it true that Bluewater is a troll?
So wait - is it true that Bluewater is a troll?
No, our friend Bluewater is just a very little boy…and when I say he is a little boy, [SIZE=2]I mean he is a very little boy.[/SIZE]
After you’ve grown up son, graduated from KP and have actually sailed on your license as a man, then you can come back here and you post with real professional mariners. Until then, you are nothing, not even a speck…you do not exist.
.
So wait is it true that c-capt is a drag queen ?
Oh you nasty BITCH! I’ll scratch your eyes out for that!
after that you buy me drink sailorman?..I promise to love you long time!