The picture was chosen by accident.
Here is a picture of a wind assisted tanker with WindWings “sail” from BAR Technologies’:
This article should contain enough numbers to satisfy even you:
All I said was, “Thank you.”
Nope. One voyage is never enough. Give me the life-cycle cost/benefit analysis, or better still, actual cost/benefit figures.
I continue to ask people of vast seagoing experience to tell me what proportion of their seagoing on passage time was spent with the wind not from ahead +/- say 60 degrees.
A bit of a skewed question, sailboats tend to take downwind routes even if somewhat out of the way. If one were to have a clipper ship, one would presumably be sailing traditional routes when possible.
There are no purely sail-powered cargo ships. Modern attempts at sails aim only at fuel/GHG reduction. Whilst some deviation from direct routing may be viable, it’s generally not. There’s seldom tolerance for late arrival either so no waiting for favourable winds.
So sail-assisted cargo ships generally ply the same routes and just set sails when the wind is beneficial.
My point is that when a power driven vessel is on passage, the wind has a low probability of coming from a beneficial relative direction at sufficient force to be of use. Deck officers just have to observe themselves how often the relative wind comes from any direction other than that ahead arc.
I don’t know if the British Admiralty publication Ocean Passages of the World still has the sailing ship routes in it. A valuable resource for ocean towing complied from information compiled over many years from the shipping companies of some of the largest sailing fleets in the world.
An ETA was given from the arrival pilot boarding to the berth.
It’s still available as routing charts, but generally supplanted by more modern computer-based weather and routing apps constantly updating.
But my point remains, winds will never be consistently favourable enough for sails to be more than a gimmick.
Every time I want to sail south, the wind comes from there. Sods law.
Adding “purely” to the statement is specious at best. In this day and age some form of auxiliary propulsion, even if purely for in harbor or emergency maneuvering is inconceivable.
OK. Change ‘purely’ to ‘primarily’ and it’s fixed.
Although I do recall @ombugge championing just such a sailing cargo vessel with no auxiliary engine proposal on these pages somewhere in the past. He remembers everything so he can resolve that for us.
No such thing as a sail ship with no form of axillary power of any kind AFAIK.
In fact, in 1959 I did my pre-sea training on the last tall ship without any other propulsion power than sail:
The Master on "Sørlandet at the time was also the last Norwegian that only held “Master of Sail” licence. He had never been on a ship with other form of propulsion than sail.
PS> She got an auxiliary propulsion engine installed later that year.
Ok. I have it in my mind that we once discussed someone’s proposal to build a sailing cargo craft with no auxiliary but I may have that mixed up with the one with zero emissions and battery electric auxiliary motor.
Oops, I seem to have left out the “not” before “having some form of aux propulsion…”
Can somebody who has EVER commanded a commercial/cargo vessel , who has ever made a voyage plan , who has ever laid his eyes and/ or read voyage charter party or time charter party or Owners instructions regarding voyage execution ,who has ever sailed in a liner or tramp service, who has ever been served by local charterer or owners agents , who has ever heard abt “ deviation “ clauses so widely discussed by major PANDI Clubs in the XXI CENTURY!!! , can somebody as stipulated above w/o google aid or AI B.S. explain the quoted by Alias Hogfart odd phrase???. ? or explain it to a person ,who may be was working and living in some parallel reality (that is me of course).
To give ETA from pilot boarding grounds/stn to berth must be a challenge to all pilots . Can Alias @244 confirm ?
But could be. !!!
I was asked many times abt ETA next port during my lunch or dinner with Agent on shore , Class or other interested parties I had a pleasure to dine with.
I recall vividly being asked about this item ETA 10 or more times before even letting go the lines, two ,sometimes 3 days before and it would be considered UNTHINKABLE,OUTRAGEOUS even, not to give promptly and w/o HESITATION such answer serving in the capacity of master. Some may be bold enough to question your competence w/o a prompt and precise answer, which with years of experience of dealing with shore side slackers must be supplemented with ““ weather & safety permitting ““ what is a maritime version of “ inshallah or God willing”
Alias @Jughead is excused as He appears to know more abt vsl navigation and voyage planning then all others combined and uses common sense which is rare down under .
To be on the safe side Dr. .Bugge is also excused as Nordic/Viking fury mixed with Chinese Art and ingenuity may be something untenable with my meager resources & skills .
Cheers and have a lovely rest of your day
.
Lay of the Wodka before you climb on the keyboard. I was referring to the operation of square rigged vessels without auxiliary in the 19th century. They had neither the means nor the ability to forecast an accurate Estimated Time of Arrival. Estimated and Accurate being something of a oxymoron.
I did know one of the masters of the Pamir while she was trading under the NZ flag and although she was without auxiliary propulsion she did have a radio in her final years and could have got closer than most.
I will have a nice day, spring has arrived.
Well Sir .
You seem to be quick in serving verdicts and accusations from Holocaust to alcohol abuse.
You also seem to never loose a chance to throw some veiled insults. But i do not care much as whatever starts with ‘‘Hog…’’ smells badly and gives one an early warning what to expect or rather not expect much. FYG 0700 : 0858 am is not my drinking time unless U have strong coffe in mind.
Bottom line is that from pilot boarding ground to berth the distance is short and it is the pilot who conveys such info to all interested shore parties irrespective of ship propulsion.
The standard industry practice is to sent ETA after BOSP to next port pilot stn/pilot boarding grounds as nobody at this stage of commercial voyage has the slightest idea about traffic/congestion situation in next port in 10 or more days including agents next port. Everything is fine tuned while the voyage is progressing . Above applies to tramp service. In liner service it is much closer to what is considered fixed/regular schedule.
Last time i checked , Ocean Passages of the world was a standard publication available on all commercial vessels and listed as compulsory for the purpose of voyage planing. Can send You one if interested as it is never too late to read sth contemporary.
Anybody who spent decades on commercial ships in liner services suplemented with abt 6 years on bulkers will notice immediately You are a little out of touch with such practice /experience what does not disqualify You as a good or excellent Captain/Master .
Our practical experiences are simply different.
Enjoy Your spring then.
Added 010925
One more thing. Suggest we stop here not to derail an interesting topic which is NUCLEAR POWERED ships not sail powered ships auxilary assisted or not. We can trade thinly veiled insults on PM if You Sir wish ;-). Pax vobiscum
The discussion had ventured into Sail Ships and I offered my opinion on forecasting an ETA on this:
She traded under the New Zealand to West Coast USA throughout World War II. My comment referred to the difficulty of setting an accurate ETA in line with today’s commercial practise.
It may surprise you to know that I was setting ETA’s accurate to the hour 55 years ago on a liner trade New Zealand via Cape Horn to Europe.
I don’t recall any post of made on the Holocaust and I’m aware that we are on different
time zones. I’m writing this over a coffee after breakfast at 09:00.
At your time of 22:00 you can shout yourself somthing stronger.
