Foreign owners are already registering foreign built ships under US flag and hiring US crews to take advantage of the MSP scheme:
Here is the list of ships under MSP per Jan.2021.
NOTE: Majority are owned and operated by US subsidiaries of major foreign Shipping Companies:
Question; will ships under a future USVI open registry qualify to participate in MSP as US ships??
Listen to me carefully BuggeheadâŠ
There will NEVER be a USVI register! Despite the BULLSHIT in the press releases we all readâŠthe USVI is a part of the USA and is not legally entitled to do JACK SHIT regarding flagging ships! That authority resides ONLY with the US Congress who alone has the right to make modifications or changes to 46 United States Code where you will find the enabling statutes concerning which ship owners qualify to document their ships under the FUCKING GODDAMN Stars and Stripes!
DO YOU UNDERSTAND?!?
Yeah, I am sure youâd just love it as long as you get your masterâs job out of it, but how would you feel if you were only a third mate being defacto blocked out of working on a ship flying the flag of the nation you are a citizen of?
Such a selfish position to haveâŠSHAME!
Iâd be happy because it would create more promotion potential by giving the Chief Mates that are otherwise stuck waiting for a position to move up into a place to go.
Also, it would only ADD American jobs so why do you care? Shouldnât you be happy itâs adding jobs?
Did anyone watch the dog and pony show earlier?
Adding a pathetic handful of jobs is meaningless. The USA needs all levels of qualified citizen mariners not just masters and chiefs to not just have a healthy industry but a large enough pool of qualified manpower in the event of a national emergency (ie. a war) unless you believe non citizens will prove reliable and willing to serve. Never has worked in how many times over more than 100years but maybe you belief that Filipino seaman will be happy to fight for the US in the future? Is that a risk you want to take?
A second US flag for foreign trade using foreign manpower only makes that pool of manpower smaller and this brings HARM to the nation!
so screw you very muchâŠSIR!
No it doesnât, it just makes more jobs for masters and chiefs and this increases the number of active licensed mariners.
US Maritime Laborâs statement today:
For immediate release: February 1, 2022
A broad coalition of American labor organizations has
responded to the establishment of a flag of convenience open registry shipping regime in the U.S. Virgin Islands:
âOn behalf of the licensed and unlicensed American merchant mariners who have proudly and without fail served our country since its founding, we oppose in the
strongest possible terms the creation of an open registry in the Virgin Islands, a territory of the United States.
âOpen registries exist so that shipowners can increase their profits by avoiding the same rules, regulations, tax obligations and manning requirements that attach to a
national flag fleet. This latest effort is nothing more than an exercise in labor arbitrage designed to generate registry fees and to enrich foreign shipowners at the expense of American workers and Americaâs national interests.
âThe proposed U.S. Virgin Islands flag of convenience open registry will not benefit the United States nor Americaâs maritime industry, any more than any other second or open registry benefits a national flag country. In fact, the establishment and growth of second registries by other industrialized nations has done little more than decimate their national flag fleets to the point that they are no longer able to provide the requisite military security and logistical support to their flag nations.
âAt its core, this proposal, allowing for the operation of vessels with foreign mariners under a United States open registry, is an affront to the American mariners who have
always put themselves in harmâs way whenever called upon by our nation. Their service, most recently recognized by Congress with the awarding of a Congressional Gold Medal to World War II American merchant mariners, demonstrates a clear and unwavering commitment on the part of American merchant mariners to supply and support American troops deployed around the world, with no regard for their own safety. American mariners believe that our servicemen and women and their families deserve no less.
âThe military security of the United States will not be strengthened by relying on foreign owned and foreign crewed vessels. The safety of American troops deployed
overseas and the success of their mission must not be put in jeopardy by a reliance on a flag of convenience open registry scheme that utilizes foreign crewed vessels to
deliver what our servicemen and women need to do their job in our behalf.
âFinally, if the supply chain crisis has taught us anything it is that we, as a country, must begin to reverse the dangerous reliance we have on foreign sources for goods and for shipping services. Increasing Americaâs dependence on foreign owned and foreign manned vessels will exacerbate the current situation and will not somehow magically enhance Americaâs maritime posture.
âWe call upon the Department of Defense, the Maritime Administration, the Biden Administration and the Congress to reject any suggestion that United States Virgin Islands-flag vessels be treated as if they are U.S.-flag and U.S.-crewed vessels for any purpose or for any program. At the same time, we reiterate our commitment to work with the Administration and Congress to achieve a more robust, commercially viable U.S.-flag, U.S.-crewed fleet that will continue to protect Americaâs economic, military and homeland security.â
David Connolly, President, Sailors Union of the Pacific
Paul Doell, President, American Maritime Officers
Daniel Duncan, Secretary-Treasurer, Maritime Trades Department, AFL-CIO
Don Marcus, President, International Organization of Masters, Mates & Pilots
Anthony Poplawski, President, Marine Firemenâs Union
Greg Regan, President, Transportation Trades Department, AFL-CIO
Michael Sacco, President, Seafarers International Union
Adam Vokac, President, Marine Engineersâ Beneficial Association
NEGATIVE! do you not expect ships currently under the ârealâ US flag would jump to this new flag to make more profits? Get the benefits of having the flag without the costs?
No, because theyâre US flag for a reason and flagging away from that theyâd lose that.
To say it in words you might understand, NEGATIVE!
So that right there brings this full circleâŠwhy even have a âsecondâ flag anyway if there is no benefit to it for the owners? Why would some shipowner switch his vessels from Panama or Liberia to this faux USVI flag unless he can get work or cargoes for his vessels than he canât get now?
Second flags donât bring in new ships unless the owners get something in return but invariably drain away ships sailing under the "real"national flag because the owners get to escape costs they donât want to keep paying!
Iâm not sure. The security of being US flag which reduces the likelihood of shithole countries fucking with you? They clearly think theyâre a benefit they could sell to owners so Iâm interested in hearing what they have to say.
Has to have been just that with their signing ceremony and all grips and grins for the what I am sure were painfully few reporters present.
Wonder if John even went in the end or if he realized his reputation might get rather shitstained if he showed his face there? I certainly hope he bailed out at the last minute when the reality of this bunch became clear to himâŠ
I was hoping someone might chime in that was able to watch the livestream. I was not, but I did register and it appears possible that the archived webcast will be available on that site in a day or two.
It seems rather vague reading the white paper what the benefit or opportunity for US mariners would be. They phrased it as âexpand employment opportunities for US marinersâ. But unless there is an explicit requirement then that is meaningless. One could presuppose that the requirement is assumed since the current regulations require it on US flagged vessels, but since this is a USVI-flag that currently doesnât exist from a regulatory standpoint I donât think it can be assumed.
Of course the unions are afraid, they fear any change, blissfully allowing the status quo to sail them into an endless decline for decades.
@c.captain, as much as I love searching CFRs for hours, what part of 46 specifically precludes a second flag registry? As we all know how impossible it is these days to pass an act in Congress I have to assume these guys either believe there is an avenue here that is available in the existing regs, or maybe we should be perusing proposed bill language.
Not 46 CFR but Title 46 US Code.
CFRs are administrative regulations but the US Code is statute which only Congress can write or change.
The laws concerning documentation of US flag vessels can be found here
Thanks. Right, I should not have conflated the two. Iâve crossed my eyes for a while trying to understand the legalese in 46 USC.
Chapter 121 covers Documentation of Vessels. Documentation is required for vessels âengage[d] in a tradeâ. Documentation is only allowed if a vessel meets the ownership eligibility requirements, which can only include foreigners if they are somehow owners of a corporation incorporated in the US meeting the other requirements.
The part I am confused/intrigued by is the following:
46 USC defines Vessel of the United States as one documented under Chapter 121, numbered under chapter 123, or titled under the law of a State. The definition of State includes the Virgin Islands Therefore it appears at a glance the USVI can already register a vessel under US Flag by their own titling regulations. But it will still not be âdocumentedâ and therefor not allowed to engage in trade?
Only Documented vessels can engage in trade unless under 5 net tons so the USVI can flag every 4.9nrt vessel their heartâs desire.
Nice to see the unions rediscover their voices again. Iâm pleasantly surprised and take back a little of what I said about them being a bunch of sackless mooches.
I'm certainly not patronizing Northeast Maritime again. Lord knows I throw as much money at maintaining my credentials as I used to at the Boobie Trap bar outside of the gate at Port Everglades, 25 years ago.
All the word soup and political BS thrown around in what ended up being The World's Most Boring Infomercial was expelled like the brown stuff from a manure spreader. the only buzzword bingo bellringer today one that stuck was Enrichment... enrichment only for that New Bedford schoolmarm and his 1982 7-Up commercial buddy.Thatâs the bottom line. Itâs just one more scam dreamed up by those who pocket fortunes while producing absolutely nothing.
TBS!!!
YES SIIIIR!!!
I also know that the same arguments, (less the military aspects) has been raised by grumpy old farts in other countries when they started Second Registries.
I canât say about their happiness, or the future, but there were a lot of Pinoys in the Seabees during the Vietnam War.
During WWII a lot of foreigners served in the USMM and on foreign ships chartered by the US War Department.
BTW; the proposed new USVI Open Registry has become world news (at least in Maritime media):
Yet two of these three flag states are at, or near, top of the Paris MoUâs âWhite Listâ and administered from the US, by Americans. It shows what can be done, without compromising on safety.