And you truly wonder why a company like ECO doesn’t want you? You have no inside info, no knowledge of what happened, no insight to the build process but you insist you know what everyone did, where they went wrong and so forth…I’ve I said several times, for every one positive contribution you make, you insist on 15 dumbass ones
And the AIVIQ looks nothing like any of those Canadian boats because?"
AIVIQ looks like a hell of nice a boat to me. Given the varied nature of its work, it is a compromise vessel that has to be a jack of all trades to serve many different requirements in a remote area, rather than optimized for just one task. I don’t know for sure who designed AIVIQ, but I’m under the impression it was Ulstein — they are about as good as it gets.
The Canmar boats look like serious Arctic workhorses, but those square wedding cake deck houses went out of style with disco music. They were also built pre-global warming when there was a lot more ice than there is now. Another thing, weren’t the Canmar boats relatively shallow draft so they could work out of Tuk? There is a big difference between working out of Tuk and working out Dutch.
Same guy praising the boat not too long ago…
I know U/L masters are knowledgable, but now they are experts in modern naval architecture? Take a pink pill, sit back, maybe go to work(if your working these days), and lets see how the investigation goes without your expert opinion (since you didn’t design, build, sea trial, sail, set contract parameters, make the voyage plans, assist the decision making team, do the pre salvage assessments, I’m not sure how expert that opinion is…)
Just saying.
Everything that I can see regarding her ability to be a tug is an oversized hull/superstructure for her Bollard pull and what I well imagine is a ship too big and cumbersome to maneuver close under its own tow if required to in adverse weather.
I am sure Ulstein was happy to design what ECO and Shell asked for, but I certainly believe the right overall vessel for the job is not the AIVIQ. She definitely is not a good ocean tug.
.
Does anyone know who in fact designed the Aiviq?
[QUOTE=rshrew;93303]Does anyone know who in fact designed the Aiviq?[/QUOTE]
From Professional Mariner, “Aiviq was designed by Chouest’s Gary Rook and was the product of more than 2 million work hours.”
[QUOTE=rigdvr;93284]And you truly wonder why a company like ECO doesn’t want you? You have no inside info, no knowledge of what happened, no insight to the build process but you insist you know what everyone did, where they went wrong and so forth…I’ve I said several times, for every one positive contribution you make, you insist on 15 dumbass ones[/QUOTE]
We wonder why no foreign company will ever come to the US to build a ship for any reason other than the Jones Act? We may do a thing or two right but we do a lot more wrong. Critical comments like these open discussion and open eyes. Stop patting yourselves on the back for the things you did right and sit down and analyze the things you did wrong. It’s the only way anybody will learn.
And none here are the ones who need to analyze the things done wrong. Let the investigation unfold before jumping on the bandwagon.
[QUOTE=rigdvr;93363]And none here are the ones who need to analyze the things done wrong. Let the investigation unfold before jumping on the bandwagon.[/QUOTE]
Son, this is a public open forum made up of men and women who work in this industry so to me this is open to our discussing here including the aspects that some persons either want to avoid or are too blinded to see are valid contentions to make.
Although you and others here might want me to, I’m not going to sit silent now for more than a year saying nothing until a USCG Marine Accident Investigation Report if made public.
[QUOTE=c.captain;93364]Son, this is a public open forum made up of men and women who work in this industry so to me this is open to our discussing here including the aspects that some persons either want to avoid or are too blinded to see are valid contentions to make.
Although you and others here might want me to, I’m not going to sit silent now for more than a year saying nothing until a USCG Marine Accident Investigation Report if made public.[/QUOTE]
Looks like the band on the wagon has all ready started toot’en a toot, what with today’s info about Shell in a hurry to avoid taxes. There will be more cats jumping out of the bag before this is over.
Those cats jumping out of the bag will be chasing the rats abandoning this sinking ship.
[QUOTE=rigdvr;93363]And none here are the ones who need to analyze the things done wrong. Let the investigation unfold before jumping on the bandwagon.[/QUOTE]
I agree that there is a tendency for people to post when they don’t have the facts, I include myself in that. Having said that have you turned on the TV after some crime etc? Are all the talking heads saying lets wait for the trial before we comment? This is an internet forum not a legal deposition. Also anyone is free to refute anything posted here.
Bottom line, you can pull into port with your tow or you can pull in light boat and a story. Bringing in the tow is always better no matter how good the story.
I agree. My problem is that many here talk like they have first hand knowledge and don’t. Questioning events and circumstances is good, necessary even but C.craptain is set on condemning and pointing fingers before the situation is even resolved. He has been hoping for this ever since Noble fired him and ECO wouldn’t look at him (he’s made that statement several times)
Lets ask the right questions, find the fault, hopefully learn enough to prevent it in the future. There will be plenty of blame to go around so…
[QUOTE=rigdvr;93428]I agree. My problem is that many here talk like they have first hand knowledge and don’t. Questioning events and circumstances is good, necessary even but C.craptain is set on condemning and pointing fingers before the situation is even resolved. He has been hoping for this ever since Noble fired him and ECO wouldn’t look at him (he’s made that statement several times)
Lets ask the right questions, find the fault, hopefully learn enough to prevent it in the future. There will be plenty of blame to go around so…[/QUOTE]
Everyone knows if you weren’t there you couldn’t have first hand information. It makes no difference if ccaptain is right or wrong, the truth will come out eventually. In the meantime, some very good points and insight into the towing world have been shared by experienced men here that could be useful for years to come. I am all for ccaptain spouting like a whale, it only smells bad if the smell is close to home.
[QUOTE=rigdvr;93428]I agree. My problem is that many here talk like they have first hand knowledge and don’t. Questioning events and circumstances is good, necessary even but C.craptain is set on condemning and pointing fingers before the situation is even resolved. He has been hoping for this ever since Noble fired him and ECO wouldn’t look at him (he’s made that statement several times)
Lets ask the right questions, find the fault, hopefully learn enough to prevent it in the future. There will be plenty of blame to go around so…[/QUOTE]
Everyone knows if you weren’t there you couldn’t have first hand information. It makes no difference if ccaptain is right or wrong, the truth will come out eventually. In the meantime, some very good points and insight into the towing world have been shared by experienced men here that could be useful for years to come. I am all for ccaptain spouting like a whale, it only smells bad if the smell is close to home.
Everyone has their Pom Poms swinging for their team, what happened happened and we will all know soon enough.
[QUOTE=rshrew;93453]Everyone has their Pom Poms swinging for their team, what happened happened and we will all know soon enough.[/QUOTE]
“Pom Poms swinging?” I’ve got a couple that swing but they ain’t “Pom Poms” I can tell you!
Baboom…CHA!
[QUOTE=c.captain;93456]“Pom Poms swinging?” I’ve got a couple that swing but they ain’t “Pom Poms” I can tell you!
Baboom…CHA![/QUOTE]
I never heard them called Pom Poms before, how very interesting.
[QUOTE=c.captain;93253]ironic that these new Russian arctic capable vessels are announced today and only 150M Euros for the pair…two truly “Arctic Ready” vessels for the price of just one AIVIQ![/QUOTE]
I trust Russian equipment like I trust a used car salesman. Their nuclear submarines are a bargain too until you work on one and end up dying from cancer or radiation poisoning. They are more profit driven than bankers on Wall Street and bigger bunglers than those morons in DC and more corrupt than a venezuelan president. The AIVIQ was built to do everything the client wanted it to do which means it is mediocre at all the jobs it does. When you do that there are trade-offs for all these capabilities. If you look at the picture of that SMIT AHT (notice I left off the S) it is only built for one thing, working in ice, period. That boat shown would never survive winter in the North Atlantic or Pacific, anyone can see that.
I will use personal experience to illustrate this. The USCG did the same thing a few years ago when they started merging rates. Before you pretty committed to working on large cutters or getting your ass handed to you in the surf. Now, with a few notable exceptions, the BM’s are jacks of all trades and masters of none. That is part of the reason I got out. I am good (not great) at what I do and I did not want to overwork my two remaining brain cells by mastering driving something less than 65’ in the surf. Shortly after the merger “mishaps” on larger cutters started occurring. WHY? Because the idiots like me that stayed on the large cutters and had the experience by stationed on larger cutters for decades in some cases were moved to small boats or we retired and that knowledge was gone Now you had people that were on a rotation of afloat for two years and then ashore for 3 0r 4. You can not keep your level expertise high when you are only stationed aboard 2 out of 6 years and maybe 7 out of 20. compared to a person with 12-20 years continuous. I predicted this at many conferences and data-calls but to no avail; so I left. Sure enough the seagulls came home to roost and they have still not recovered. The USCG not the seagulls.
I am sure the AVIQ is similar which MAY (I am speculating here) have contributed to this situation. On the other hand, those Russian Patrol boats will only be doing that, law enforcement, not law enforcement, towing rigs and being a hotel at the same time in some of the harshest waters in the world.
“Do not judge a clown until you have walked a mile in his inflatable shoes and worn the red nose.” Joseph Stalin, 1936, just prior to killing 10,000,000 peasants by starvation.