(Not sure what happened to the other hull. Maybe someone can shine some light on that?)
The PRIDE OF AMERICA’s hull was towed from Pascagoula to Bremerhaven, Germany when about 25% complete and finished there. She would never have qualified as US build unless Congress had not granted NCL a waiver.
The PRIDE OF HAWAII has only materials when shipped to Germany so in no way could even be considered to be of partial US build. She is the NORWEGIAN JADE today
The PRIDE OF ALOHA was built as the NORWEGIAN SKY originally and reverted back to that name when withdrawn from the US flag.
btw, the PRIDE OF AMERICA has to be one of the most hideous cruiseships every built…she should have been named the SHAME OF BUTT UGLY!
[QUOTE=cappy208;57929]What the heck does Limbo have to do with this conversation?[/QUOTE]
Post #14 reads like an AM radio transcript.
NCL gave it an honest effort in Hawaii, they just couldn’t crew the boats with the kind of people that could provide the “experience” that cruise ship passengers have come to expect. I spent some time providing training on those ships and the people that SIU supplied were far from what cruise ship passengers have learned to expect. Many of them appeared to be street people who were recruited by the union to generate training grant money. It was obvious to anyone who talked to them that they had zero interest in a maritime career and even less in working such demanding jobs. Most only made one trip. It was embarrassing to see.
Trying to keep it KISS. Any of these companies (no matter how well intentioned) who receive a waiver to circumvent the Jones Act DO NOT have the money or the determination to enter into our domestic market. I have never seen ONE that has stayed. Promises, yes. But nothing to show for it. Call Me jaded. Call me pessimistic. But don’t call me unemployed! But too many of my co workers ARE out of work because of Jones Act loopholes.
You mentioned the ‘hotel staff’. I believe that is a non argument. Unless I am mistaken, foreigners can be used in hotel employ. The actual crew manning the vessel are the ones who should be considered. I just love meeting the ‘Hotel Captain’ on a cruise. What a bunch of hot air, full of themselves!
[QUOTE=cappy208;58003]You mentioned the ‘hotel staff’. I believe that is a non argument. [/QUOTE]
Are you reading the same thread the rest of us? Who mentioned (in quotes) “hotel staff” ?
Maybe it is different on your maritime planet, but in mine, everyone who is paid to work on the ship and has a safety role is “crew” and deserves the same respect and protection whether they are child care providers or captains.
I think this thread is jumping the tracks. It is supposed to be about allowing foreign built vessels into the Jones Act (coastwise trade). It is not about allowing foreign flagged and manned vessels in. The principle of protecting cabotage waterborne trade must be preserved if there is to be a maritime industry in the USA. It goes for coastwise merchant vessels, tugs, towboats, osvs, ferries, tourboats, you name it. To take away cabotage trade protection and that ends it all for us American mariners. It is no different than with air travel…wouldn’t you love to fly on a Mexican flagged airline between San Francisco and New York? Not me!
Btw, there is no US build requirements for aircraft flying on domestic routes! There should be though.
I think my maritime planet differentiates between hotel staff and the actual deck and engine depts. I believe the sweetheart deal NCL agreed to to allow the entire hotel staff to be Iscrewu shoulda been a wake up call.
Casino boats operating US domestic trade have a COI that states the “crew” must consist of USCG certificated mariners. NOT the casino, waitstaff, and hotel crew. That is the Crewing issue that accompanies this reflagging and Jones act protection issue. Never mind the crippling of our domestic shipyard capacity from non use.
It is all related. The ‘justification’ to have a waiver is always sugarcoated with good intentions, but almost always ends up screwing the mariner. This justification has been seen in the GOM, the Hawaii cruise trade and if we let them we will all be replaced with flag of convenience crews too.
The pride of America is a us flag, foreign owned, waiver vessel. It only does Hawaii cruises. It does not make the one hour port call to ensenada to ‘pretend’ to go to a foreign port to allow a foreign ship to work in the Jones act trade.
Agreed. But the hotel staff is NOT by definition required to be seafarers. What NCL did was to appease the unions to get their public backing to get a waiver.
[QUOTE=cappy208;58003]… Unless I am mistaken, foreigners can be used in hotel employ. The actual crew manning the vessel are the ones who should be considered. I just love meeting the ‘Hotel Captain’ on a cruise. What a bunch of hot air, full of themselves![/QUOTE]
You are correct on hotel staff. But it took Congress to change the law to allow it, and they only did so after the first few voiyages of the Pride of America. Previously, only U.S. citizens and aliens admitted for permanent residence (“green card”) were permitted to hold a U.S. mariner document and work on U.S. vessels. The "large passenger vessels’ requirements in 46 CFR 15.530 are the result of this change in the law.
I have never seen an inspected (under this new ruling) US flag passenger vessel COD. I would LOVE to see the Prides’ COD. I would bet that it has listed about twenty personnel to ‘man’ The other 1200 (or so) would NOT even be on the COD as crew. I believe they are listed as ‘person in addition to crew’ EG; The total number of POB is: twenty crew (listed in various capacities) 3500 passengers, and 1500 persons in addition to crew. These ‘person in addition to crew’ have never been subject to zcard requirements. I know on a ferry I worked on as a kid, the COD stated: capacity: Master (when operated over 12 hours a second master must be aboard, one deckhand for each 100 passengers to a maximum of 600 passengers, and 5 other people in addition to crew. I know the ‘5 other’ referred to snackbar help. At least that was how the owners interpreted it. But the snackbar help NEVER had Zcards. Maybe since there are so few this fell through the cracks, and the NCL reflagging brought it out into the open it was discovered.
I personally know a past skipper of a casino boat 1200 pax who confirmed that the casino staff, and waitstaff were NOT uscg documented aboard his vessel. This was as of 2004. So there is some (mis) interpretation going on here. I think this topic has been a ‘red herring’ used by NCL to garner support for reflagging (justifying Union support) By the Unions to get the waiver, and by industry to use as examples of ‘How the waiver process helps the US mariner’ All bogus reasons, with no real justification.
I was just on-board a new built (2009) US Jones Act tanker. The ship was built in a US yard, but it´s design and most of it´s components (engine, gen sets, even the equipment used in the galley down to the scuttlebutts) were made by Hyundai Heavy Industries or another foreign supplier.
Why not check which foreign countries have similar standards and rates of pay and if they are interested in a contra deal then its trade both ways?
Same with crewmen?
