Mission to Recover El Faro VDR

[QUOTE=c.captain;188878]you will have to forgive me KC for fanning the flames of the conspiracy theories which you poopoo so much but but don’t statutes of liability happen to end after three years?

I’ve got the can of gasoline if anyone has a match?[/QUOTE]

The typical tort liability statute of limitations will be two or three years, with some exceptions. That means that the claim must be filed within two or three years of the event that gives rise to the claims, not that the case must be concluded within that time.

In the El Faro case, Tote filed a limitation of liability action. The judge gave families a very limited time frame to file claims (as I recall 90 days). I think we can safely assume that all families , who did not settle, filed thier claims within that 90 day window. So there is no statute of limitations issue in this case.

It’s hard to guess what kind of timeframe this case might proceed on. I suppose someone could check the court docket for the scheduling order. There are good arguments for and against waiting for the VDR data to be released.

I don’t see any conspiracy here.

[QUOTE=tugsailor;188891]I don’t see any conspiracy here.[/QUOTE]

I was referring to CRIMINAL statute of limitations

[QUOTE=c.captain;188895]I was referring to CRIMINAL statute of limitations[/QUOTE]

Criminal statutes of limitation are typically longer, perhaps 6 to 10 years. For some crimes in some jurisdictions there are no statutes of limitations.

I don’t foresee any significant criminal charges coming out of the El Faro incident.

This is from Local News WGME

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. (WGME) – Federal investigators say El Faro’s voyage data recorder (VDR) is heading to a testing lab in Washington.

Officials held a news conference in Florida on the status of the VDR Friday. The ship’s version of a black box was recovered Monday from the ocean floor.

Once the VDR gets to the NTSB testing lab, investigators will open it up and see what, if any, information is on it that they can recover.

Officials say they found the VDR 15,000 feet under water. The NTSB says a quick visual examination doesn’t indicate any type of damage, but they won’t know for sure until they’re able to open it up.

The VDR is designed to make digital recording of things like travel data and conversations between crew members, which could be crucial to figuring out what exactly happened when before the ship sank last October with 33 crewmembers on board, including four Mainers.

Investigators say because of statutes in place, the victims’ family members won’t be allowed to listen to the audio recordings, but when the time is right written transcriptions will be released.

Officials say they haven’t started analyzing any data yet and they’ll try to answer some key questions immediately.

The NTSB doesn’t have a timeline of when it might be able to share the VDR’s data, if it can be recovered.

Officials say they’ll give another update in two weeks.

I would be interested to know which statutes those are.

Always amused by the rush-to judgment-lynch’em-mentality of some individuals. If those same individuals were accused of similar supposed crimes they would be screaming that they were being railroaded without due process. “Innocent until proven guilty” is the concept. (Not talking about any particular poster. Just saying).

The VDR has been at a depth of 15,000 feet for weeks, as I understand it past or near its design limits of data survivability. The VDR should be presumed to be fragile and in degraded condition If someone had tried to download the data a few hours after retrieval, aboard ship, and the data was lost, there would be a lot of kibbitzers finger-pointing and screaming “Why were they in such a hurry? They should have waited! They should have consulted factory techs and Silicon Valley wizards before they dared attached a USB to the VDR! Idiots!” etc. etc.

What possible reason could the NTSB have for hiding the data? Bribery? Seriously? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Is this NTSB’s first rodeo? They’ve been around for generations. Show me the evidence of bribery in any NTSB examinations. Evidence, not opinion. TOTE is TOTE, not SMERSH, not SPECTRE, suborning entire governments in the pages of a cheap paperback novel

If you’ve taken part in an investigation into an industrial accident you know you need every bit of data you can lay your hands on before you can even think of coming up with conclusions. Because of privacy rules, and the reputation of the lives that were lost, the investigators have to be extremely circumspect about releasing data.

One ill-chosen statement from NTSB can destroy an innocent man’s reputation forever, whether a deceased crew member, or a TOTE executive. NTSB needs to come up with a number of carefully crafted alternative theories as to the exact cause and chronology of the accident, and then, consulting with experts, after due consideration and research, try to destroy each and every one of those theories with evidence. And they better do it with an open mind, and no preconceived notions of guilt, or the investigation will be flawed, hence useless.

In the end a handful of theories will survive the scientific process. NTSB then has to make a best estimate of which one is correct. Finally, they’ll have to prepare answers for all the professional and armchair experts that are going to call them dopes.

All of which takes time. Old saying; the wheels of justice turn slowly, but grind exceedingly fine.

Mute the volume because they talk about planes.

//youtu.be/juA8RdYS8-k

//youtu.be/_U4Uq5fYXzw

Hahahahaha “TOTE is not SPECTRE” Bravo, sir.

Missed this, it’s from Febuary but it’s by Frump.

US Coast Guard told storm intensity surprised El Faro captain, TOTE

JACKSONVILLE, Florida – Neither the captain of the ill-fated American flag ship El Faro nor the company shore representative seemed to believe the ship was in danger of sinking when the captain first made contact, according to testimony and recordings played during the fifth day of a U.S. Coast Guard Marine Board of Investigation into the sinking of the ship and the loss of all 33 crew.

“He (El Faro Capt. Michael Davidson) said he did not plan to leave the ship,” said Capt. John Lawrence, the shoreside TOTE Marine expert or “Qualified Individual.” “Due to his calmness and the second mate’s calmness…I felt there was no immediate concern.

“When I hung up, in my opinion, in my mind at the time, I felt that he was able to pump out the hold,” Capt. Lawrence continued. “I felt the ship would not have the list and he’d get his engines back and I would talk to him further…”

Tapes of Capt. Davidson’s last calls provided an emotional backdrop to Saturday’s hearings in Jacksonville. The captain spoke in a calm and professional manner at all times — except for one moment when the TOTE Services, Inc. emergency line first placed him on hold and then asked the most basic of questions.

“Give me one second, I am going to check who is on duty today and put you on a quick hold,” the emergency system operator said. She then placed Davidson through a series of basic questions.

“Ship?” she asked.

“El Faro,” Davidson replied.

“Spell, please,” she replied. “El?”

“Ho, man!” Davidson replied in frustration, his voice cracking slightly.

“The clock…the clock is ticking! Please! Speak to the QI (Qualified Individual)!

“Ship is El Faro! El Faro! That’s Echo! Lima! Foxtrot! Alfa! Romeo! Oscar! El Faro!”

A full three minutes passed as the emergency operator was able to forward the call to Capt. Lawrence. Even then, the call went to Lawrence’s voicemail. He immediately returned the call, however, and received an assessment from Davidson.

Lawrence said he felt the officers were handling the situation and it was best for him to get out of the way and alert the Coast Guard. Davidson assured Lawrence that the crew had not panicked, and there was no reason to send the crew to the boats or life rafts. Neither captain made reference to Hurricane Joaquin and Lawrence said he was not aware the ship was directly in the storm’s way. Davidson described high winds, but swells of only ten to 12 feet.

A scuttle, or hatch had come lose, flooding the holds, Davidson reported initially, but the crew seemed to have secured the hatch and was pumping out water. The engine had lost power and the ship was listing at around 15 degrees.

Michael W. Carr, a sea captain and former U.S. Coast Guard officer, has been observing the hearings in the audience and said that in his opinion there seemed to be "a huge lack of situational awareness. There appeared to be no comprehension of Hurricane Joaquin’s position (On top of El Faro), or the seriousness of El Faro’s condition. Essentially, at the time of these calls, TOTE’s impression was El Faro was disabled, but not in distress.”

In fact, by overlaying Hurricane Joaquin charts with the position of the El Faro, Carr concluded that the ship was "inside Hurricane Joaquin’s strongest wind field.” Moreover, hurricane data showed that in this area winds increasing "from 64 knots (74 miles per hour) to over 100 knots (sustained with higher gusts to 120 knots) within a distance of 20 to 30 miles.

"Changes in wind and seas (of that magnitude) were likely significant during the time El Faro lay without power and/or propulsion,” Carr said.

Another missed item is that Davison told Coast Guard Norfolk that the ship had been dewatered.

I know hindsight is 20/20, but I’m curious. If your ship was listing 15 degrees, you had a cargo hold full of water, the winds were 100 knots, and you had no engine, would you make a distress call? I can’t imagine myself being in charge of a situation like this, and I have no expertise with stability or weather matters, so I don’t mean this as a rhetorical question.

[QUOTE=Emrobu;189137]I know hindsight is 20/20, but I’m curious. If your ship was listing 15 degrees, you had a cargo hold full of water, the winds were 100 knots, and you had no engine, would you make a distress call? I can’t imagine myself being in charge of a situation like this, and I have no expertise with stability or weather matters, so I don’t mean this as a rhetorical question.[/QUOTE]

No point in going down the “what I would have done” road. In this case not enough facts available to determine what was done that violates standard practice. Wind speed at the time might have been closer to 64 kts.

One seemingly implausible scenario that doesn’t contradict any known facts is the possibilty that the crew was unaware of the true location and movement of Joaquin and expected wx conditions to moderate.

49 U.S. Code § 1114 - Disclosure, availability, and use of information

(d) Surface Vehicle Recordings and Transcripts.—
(1)Confidentiality of recordings.—The Board may not disclose publicly any part of a surface vehicle voice or video recorder recording or transcript of oral communications by or among drivers, train employees, or other operating employees responsible for the movement and direction of the vehicle or vessel, or between such operating employees and company communication centers, related to an accident investigated by the Board. However, the Board shall make public any part of a transcript or any written depiction of visual information that the Board decides is relevant to the accident—
(A) if the Board holds a public hearing on the accident, at the time of the hearing; or
(B) if the Board does not hold a public hearing, at the time a majority of the other factual reports on the accident are placed in the public docket.

[QUOTE=freighterman;188939]

What possible reason could the NTSB have for hiding the data? Bribery? Seriously? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Is this NTSB’s first rodeo? They’ve been around for generations. Show me the evidence of bribery in any NTSB examinations. Evidence, not opinion. TOTE is TOTE, not SMERSH, not SPECTRE, suborning entire governments in the pages of a cheap paperback novel[/QUOTE]

Another thing is there were some heavyweights at the hearings Bob Frump, Michael Carr and Peter Lauridsen. All were involved in the [I]Marine Electic[/I] case.

If there was a cover-up it’s very doubful it would have slipped past these three. It’s even more doubful that it could get past these guys and get caught here on this forum.