Combined tug and barge seatime counts 2 days for 1 for half the time needed for an unlimited license.
If you don’t have time on self propelled vessels over 1600/3000, then you’ll get 2nd Mate with a tonnage limit.
Once you have 2nd Mate 2000, or possibly more, there are various ways to get it increased.
It is certainly a lot easier to earn you ATP compared to the CG testing for 3rd Mate unlimited. When I tell people that is is easier to get your pilots license compare to a Captain license they don’t believe me.
The Master Unlimited Inland exams were stupidly easy.
Aren’t you forgetting that the mate’s exam has nothing to compare with the ATP’s mentally grueling hours long test ride?
I will take that with a grain of salt…let me know how you deal with people that sit and talk with other crew bragging about how they don’t have to do ANYTHING because the company is so short they know they “can’t get fired, only bounced to another rig”.
Yeah, brain dead, unmotivated, untrainable. You can only teach someone who WANTS to learn and takes a bit of pride in their work. No commute, free food & bunk, just show up on time and work safe. If they don’t want to do that, get off my boat. Period.
Imagine if the US maritime unions weren’t made up of former mafia, closet communist elitists and self-interested administrators, with retirees weilding influence like a bludgeon in order to impoverish working mariners to pay for their pensions.
And really, considering the retard circus that is Washington, it’s not as though there’s much unions can do beyond holding out their coin cups and shaking them.
What a wonderful description of the feckless maritime unions!!!
The bigger reason why comparisons between a 3rd mate’s license and an ATP license are senseless:
As an academy 3rd mate with virtually no sea time, you join a team as a junior officer. The job has the characteristics of an apprenticeship. You make sure the ship’s lifesaving gear stays functional while you adapt to the rhythm of life at sea and you’re all good.
The FAA rating grants a pilot legal command of an extremely complex piece of machinery likely to be filled to capacity with hundreds of soft squishy humans. A tiny distraction has been known to end up bringing the whole shebang crashing down in flames.
From what I read one pipeline that supplies pilots for the major airlines is the regional airlines. How does that work with regards to licenses?
Also…while supply and demand is a big factor another is the marginal cost of production. If the majors have to cancel a flight because of a lack of a pilot that’s a big loss.
By contrast a regional airline can’t afford to pay the same wages for a pilot for a 12-20 seat plane. Cheaper to cancel the flight.
So the majors can pull pilots away from the regionals and the smaller airlines are the ones that suffer from a pilot shortage while the majors will just pay the higher wages to avoid cancelling flights.
In a nutshell: a private pilot can fly for recreation and take friends along but is not allowed to charge money to transport people. He needs a commercial license like a boat operator needs a OUPV or tonnage license to carry passengers for hire. A single engine commercial pilot without an instrument rating is restricted to very small planes in VFR conditions so he needs one of those and a multi-engine rating to be employable. The combination can get him hired by a charter company offering flights on demand, like a boat company offering charter trips.
To fly for a company operating a scheduled service whether regional or international, a pilot needs to possess an ATP for which the commercial license and instrument rating are prerequisites.
PS I should add that ATP’s at the airline level are also required to obtain type ratings for whatever aircraft they are assigned to fly.
That is an incredibly misleadiing statement based on ignorance of how the “system” works.
The only job available to a newly minted ATP is as First Officer (copilot) who must have aircraft specific type training and airline specific ground and flight training before sitting in the right seat. The experience required to get to the left seat is so far in excess of what a baby 3rd, or even a career 2nd or 3rd that few here comprehend. Every hour spent in the right seat with the federally required ATP is under the direct - let’s put DIRECT in bold caps supervision and monitoring of a very experienced captain. No one puts a brand new ATP in his wallet and hires into the left seat. The baby 3rd stands a solo watch on his first day.
Nobody made such comparison. The comparison was captain pay on airliner vs master/chief unlimited pay.
The baby 3rd would more equivalent to a new first officer, but probably not even that. More like a commercial license (250hrs) And even then, the baby 3rd still required at least 4 years of life to get the ticket. An atp rating can be earned in much less than 4 calendar years.
My response was to Skycowboy’s post:
“It is certainly a lot easier to earn you ATP compared to the CG testing for 3rd Mate unlimited. When I tell people that is is easier to get your pilots license compare to a Captain license they don’t believe me.”
I know all too well how the system works. I was commenting on the legal aspect. A green ATP with a type rating can legally sit in the left seat. Not likely to happen in real life but legally possible. A green 3rd will get bitch slapped if he dares set his ass down in the master’s chair on the bridge. He’s a long way off from legally operating as unlimited master.
No amount of hair splitting or bickering makes the comparisons brought up on this thread any more valid.
So then why is the pay difference so great?
The calendar time to get the ticket is far shorter but the skill level and depth of training and experience for an ATP is incomparable.
The comparison between FAA ATP license and USCG Master is nonsensical. The FAA has examiners that observe the prospective license holders in addition to requiring a written test. The USCG only requires a letter saying the prospective master was a chief mate.
I have known USCG licensed Masters who never left the Gulf of Mexico and while there never worked on anything bigger than an anchor boat get a USCG masters license. A year or so later they work on a drillship or semi as chief mate in the Gulf of Mexico and then get a Masters license. Never moved over a 100 miles and never gone to port. Then they are sent to Singapore, China or Korea to deliver a ship or semi to South or North America carrying 100 plus people. Fair enough, that’s what the company they work for think is OK.
But, that would be like a regional airline pilot who never left his small US region suddenly getting a left seat job on any major carrier and tasked with an international route. Never happen on any of the major carriers because the companies’ experience requirements are much higher. To be fair the small regional ATP had at least landed and taken off at different airports.
Yes, but if the airplane captain steps it to take a shit the brand new ATP can fuck up and kill everyone onboard before the captain can get back. The 3rd has much more time to call for help if he’s ever unsure or something weird comes up.
I’m not the one who came up with this statistic, but I can try to break it down.
On the maritime side, assuming maritime academy, working even time, and being promoted the day you upgrade your license:
4 maritime academy
2 to 2nd
2 to CM
2 to Capt
=10 years absolute minimum.
To become a doctor you need 8 years of school. You are now licensed to practice.
You don’t need to be board certified and all that jazz to practice, but it is standard to do so. Perhaps in the same way deep sea unlimited captains take maybe 15, 20 years to move all the way up?
Let’s all take a deep breath. That’s not my statement. Go back and look at the context. It was a quote from Skycowboy in my reply to Johnny Dollar.
