I wish our Congressmen cared for us equally


#21

[QUOTE=Tups;182463]Good luck with building an LNG carrier in India. I’ve seen one vessel built there - a small bulk freighter - and the quality left much to hope for. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the steel and equipment was sourced from Alang…[/QUOTE]

It’s amazing, what comes out of Alang and the other South Asian breakers. Rebar and other processed recycled steels, all sorts of equipment- from soup to nuts. Gensets to windlasses to tackle to computers and on and on. Quality? You and I know the answer to that!


#22

[QUOTE=catherder;182511]It’s amazing, what comes out of Alang and the other South Asian breakers. Rebar and other processed recycled steels, all sorts of equipment- from soup to nuts. Gensets to windlasses to tackle to computers and on and on. Quality? You and I know the answer to that![/QUOTE]

As much as I respect you, catherder, I’ll have to call your BS on this post. I don’t know much about most of the products that you mentioned, hence, I’ll stick to the topics that I know inside out, i.e. steel & computers.

I’ve mentioned on many threads that I was a steel trader. When you mention rebars, sitting in USA, how do you know about the quality of Indian rebars? Care to educate me/us?

  1. Indian rebars have not been imported into USA, primarily because of high anti-dumping duty, which was lobbied against in favor of Chinese steel. Indian rebars are expensive and, given my anti-pathy towards Chinese steel, as much as I tried, I could not import Indian rebars. The only rebars available in USA are US, Mexican, Turkish and Chinese. CMC imports some from their East European plant. Where do you get you the impression about Indian rebars, especially as they never have been imported into USA? When it comes to pipes, tubes & coils, Indian steel has always been expensive and less exported. Where price was not a concern and quality more important, my buyers have always preferred Indian and US steel versus Chinese.

  2. I’ve dealt with both CMC and NUCOR. Rebars are made out of recycled steel, even in USA. Ore, if any, is added to meet the oxygen and carbon parameters. Else, ore is used primarily for prime steel and not for CQ steel.

  3. What Indian made computer hardware have you come across in USA? As a computer nerd, I am genuinely curious. When I go computer shopping, my preference is for Fujitsu, even though expensive, as their laptops come directly from Japan (incl made there).

Given my experiences in steel and textile, I’d rather buy Indian versus Chinese. If I were to go step forward, when it comes to textiles, I can think of a few more countries, but NOT China.

Not plugging in for India, but a biased commentator is not educating anybody on a forum and most of your comments are educative. But, not this one.

No, I don’t know and I’d like to know an answer to that.


#23

“there is an over-reliance by the Alliance as a whole on the United States for the provision of essential capabilities, including for instance, in regard to intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance; air-to-air refuelling; ballistic missile defence; and airborne electronic warfare.”

I wonder about what kind of compensation the US Navy receives for Underway Replenishment to NATO combat ships and a lot of other small nations besides. I never took notes so this is anecdotal but we refueled close from a quarter to half as many foreign navy ships as US Navy ships. Although it’s probably peanuts in the big scheme of things I’d be curious to know.


#24

[QUOTE=Kraken;182502]but per capita we are only beaten by the US.[/QUOTE]

Does that upset you?


#25

When two ships were ordered in January 2006, the contract price was 50 million euro for two 18,800 DWT, ice class 1A Super geared bulk carriers based on a Swedish FKAB G13 design. The ships were to be delivered in 2008. The delivery was slightly delayed and the second vessel was cancelled already in 2009. The first (and only) ship was handed over to the owner in August 2011. When it arrived in Finland few months later, it went straight to shipyard for repairs, and again in 2012. A judicial process against the shipyard was started in 2014 about the cost of repairs during guarantee period.

The builder was ABG Shipyard:

[i]- Largest Private Sector Shipbuilding Yard in India Certified by DNV for ISO 9001 - 2008

  • Shipyard has received All India Trophy for Highest Exporters, every year continuously from 2003-04 onwards, in Recognition of outstanding Contribution to Engineering - Export from Govt. of India - Ministry of Commerce.
  • Delivered 149 specialized and sophisticated vessels.
  • State of the art manufacturing facilities at Dahej and Surat in Gujrat.
  • Competitiveness in the Global markets in terms of Price, Quality and Delivery.
  • Order in hand over Rs. 16,600 crores.[/i]

Perhaps they have improved their quality since then. However, an LNG carrier is not the easiest ship to build so I’m a bit skeptical about their ability to actually build such ships even if they claim to be able to do so. Heck, even the Russians have problems building modern icebreakers…


#26

[QUOTE=Tups;182599]When two ships were ordered in January 2006, the contract price was 50 million euro for two 18,800 DWT, ice class 1A Super geared bulk carriers based on a Swedish FKAB G13 design. The ships were to be delivered in 2008. The delivery was slightly delayed and the second vessel was cancelled already in 2009. The first (and only) ship was handed over to the owner in August 2011. When it arrived in Finland few months later, it went straight to shipyard for repairs, and again in 2012. A judicial process against the shipyard was started in 2014 about the cost of repairs during guarantee period.

The builder was ABG Shipyard:

[i]- Largest Private Sector Shipbuilding Yard in India Certified by DNV for ISO 9001 - 2008

  • Shipyard has received All India Trophy for Highest Exporters, every year continuously from 2003-04 onwards, in Recognition of outstanding Contribution to Engineering - Export from Govt. of India - Ministry of Commerce.
  • Delivered 149 specialized and sophisticated vessels.
  • State of the art manufacturing facilities at Dahej and Surat in Gujrat.
  • Competitiveness in the Global markets in terms of Price, Quality and Delivery.
  • Order in hand over Rs. 16,600 crores.[/i]

Perhaps they have improved their quality since then. However, an LNG carrier is not the easiest ship to build so I’m a bit skeptical about their ability to actually build such ships even if they claim to be able to do so. Heck, even the Russians have problems building modern icebreakers…[/QUOTE]

You mean this?

Never heard of them, but can’t be all that bad if ESL had kept aside Eur 0.4 million on warranty repairs and received Eur 0.8million + interest under a court order.


#27

[QUOTE=smoker;182614]You mean this?

Never heard of them, but can’t be all that bad if ESL had kept aside Eur 0.4 million on warranty repairs and received Eur 0.8million + interest under a court order.[/QUOTE]

Yes. Despite the compensations, I still believe the shipping company wasn’t too happy with the vessel. Due to delayed delivery, they had to charter a replacement vessel for some years. There’s even a rumor that when the ship was in dry dock and the CEO visited it, he got sick from the onboard water and was heard mumbling something like “…and this is the last ship we order from India…” when walking down the gangway. I don’t know if that’s true, but the water in the photographs posted on another forum didn’t look very fresh and the build quality of the kitchen looked… interesting.

Anyway, that was the first and, as of today, the only Indian-built ship ever to fly the Finnish flag. It’s not a reference the shipyard can be proud of, and that’s probably why they haven’t posted it on their website. However, we all know how the Japanese brought up their shipbuilding industry (or car industry, for that matter) to world-class standard, followed by South Korea and China*. The process is faster every time and I wouldn’t be surprised if India followed, but until now I haven’t personally seen a well-built ship from India or heard someone saying something like “Dude, that Indian-built ship was of such good quality!” Instead, the bystanders were wondering how Alppila could look so crappy for a newbuilding.

(* they still have issues with quality, but at least the ships are not that bad anymore, meaning that you don’t have to drydock tankers instantly after delivery due to cracks in the cargo tanks)