[QUOTE=c.captain;43022]What in the [B][I][U]f–k[/U][/I][/B] does any of this have to do with American mariners keeping the jobs they have a right to under LAW?[/QUOTE]
i didn’t want to say it, but that is exactly the issue! The romanian works on a Antigua and Barbuda flagged vessel, makes a living wage, lives in St Kitts for most of his off time, and does NOT work for a US owned Co. This has NOTHING to do with our wages or work conditions, other than to share what else is happening in other flag states. But that shouldn’t mean he can come here under the guise of a worker shortage to take my job. I don’t know why this ‘shortage’ is not being vociferously protested, fought and killed by all the Academy’s. As much as I hate to say it, this will even stop the maritime graduates from getting hired!
[QUOTE=Steamer;43004]And you probably never will. I told you which ships will eliminate American officers first. Please tell us how this proposed rule will benefit American seafarers?
You have steadfastly refused, or more likely, are incapable of producing an argument to support your contention that all the rest of us are wrong in our interpretation of the rule and its impact on our livelihood. If you can’t defend the proposed rule why are you wasting time and space here? If you are just a troll, fair enough, that is how I see your comments, they lack substance, they do not contribute to the discussion.[/QUOTE]
Steamer,
Sorry, I am how I am. Just reading above, for example, I’m reading where some hope and/or pray that they’re wrong. Again, I can’t agree with people when they don’t even know if they’re right. That pretty much sums it up without getting into semantics.
I just edited to add, since you said the “troll” word. To that, you can kiss my ass because I have always helped mariners navigate their way up the ladder. With rules, tests, and anything else they need. That’s where a majority of my post counts come from. I very rarely see the same from the “chicken little - the sky is falling” crowd.
[QUOTE=c.captain;43022]What in the [B][I][U]f–k[/U][/I][/B] does any of this have to do with American mariners keeping the jobs they have a right to under LAW?[/QUOTE]
It has absolutely nothing to do with it. I’m just curious of the price of beer in Romanian. If you have a problem with that, then don’t fucking answer. Did you not understand when I said I was curious? If you don’t understand that, I am landing in New Orleans on Monday night, at 2105 hours, from Amsterdam…and I will explain it in person if you so desire.
[QUOTE=anchorman;43036]It has absolutely nothing to do with it. I’m just curious of the price of beer in Romanian. If you have a problem with that, then don’t fucking answer. Did you not understand when I said I was curious? If you don’t understand that, I am landing in New Orleans on Monday night, at 2105 hours, from Amsterdam…and I will explain it in person if you so desire.[/QUOTE]
That is a good site, glad to see I reside in a place listed in the top 10 cheapest beer prices (not to mention the liter bottles of rum for less that U.S. $1) Wish I was there now
[QUOTE=c.captain;43023]No…here is where we have them! the US citizen mariner is a defense asset needed in wartime! No citizen mariners means no American crews for RRF ships unless the MSC is ok with Pakistanis at the helm of our Gray Ships sailing into the war zone! US citizen mariners have always been and always will be critical to our Nation’s defense!
DO NOT FORGET THAT.[/QUOTE]
Not sure how you figure we have them, the rule if passes takes all that away. Have you not been paying attention what’s been going on in our industry? Doesn’t Maersk Shipping Lines have US Government contracts? They are a foreign company that has engaged in trade with Iran but yet the US allows them contracts.
Didn’t Maersk Shipping Lines trade with North Vietnam during the war?
I suggest you comment and play it safe. If you leave this to the politicians, foreign lobbyist, and a not so caring US Coast Guard then you will for sure be jobless.
On the other hand, if your right then I guess a handful of government jobs is all we will have, not enough to supply us all with work. You can’t convince me American Businessmen will do ther honorable thing and keep ships All American when most have already went foreign flag years ago.
I write this as a non mariner but a person seeking to escape the nightmare of the technology industry and I will briefly describe the scenario that happened to my field when someone convinced a few key senators that there wasn;t enough talent locally to fill the needs of business.
My experience happened in 1999 when the Dot Com boom was at its peak. After a giant surge in earnings by less than reputable firms, the labor rate started to move up. This was a symptom of the enormous profits neing earned by technology companies during the boom.
The probelm was never that there wasn;t the local talent to fill the roll, but that the local talent might actually get a piece of the action as the industry accellerated. Well, fast forward two years, after the bust, of course, the the HIB visa allowance moved from 50,000/year to 1 Million per year. Now, bear in mind that the firat, smaller batch of computer scientists, were actually exceptional, after increasing it 20 fold, the quality droppped percipitously. These same people have displaced almost 10 Million jobs in the US based simply on ythe fact that they cannot seek employment beyond the person that sponsored them. They’re stuck for the duration with no possibility of a raise nor a reasonable expectation of citizenship.
The current action towards mariners is the same, exact problem on a much smaller scale. The prospect of professional mariners actually reaping some of the benefits of the increasing difficulty of obtaining and maintaining their licences is now forcing companies to pay more for their skills. This enrages business that wants to minimumize their expenses.
Please, fight this move with every fiber of your being. Now that the rest of America is being systematically destroyhed by access to foreign competotors who work for penury wages, the Merchant Marine is one of the few refuges available.
[QUOTE=anchorman;42546]The obvious answer, to me, would be to have an international register of ships, Certificates of Equivalency issued only to those US flagged ships under the register, and to have a separate register for those in the Jones Act trade where CEC’s are not valid. This is a valid approach done by other countries to become STCW compliant while observing cabotage laws. Some flag states go as far as making CECs’ valid only for a specific ship.[/QUOTE]
That is what this forum’s members should be putting in the comments. This solicitation for comments is requesting input in how to implement this policy, not whether or not to implement it at all. We should give comments asking them to limit the CECs to vessels that are already legally allowed to carry foreigners (that excludes the waiver boats).
This policy will not allow foreigners onto US ships that aren’t already allowed, but set guidelines for deciding what foreign documents are equivalent to ours and are legitimately issued so that the American vessels with foreign mariners won’t get into trouble for being improperly crewed.
If you are worried that it will allow foreigners into AMO and MM&P then get the unions to make citizenship requirements or say that their members must have USCG licenses, not CECs.
Lastly, write your congressmen to let them know that you are opposed to the repeal of the Jones Act and that you are outraged at the abuse of the ‘no available US mariners’ clause in the USC!!!
Thanks for writing your letter to the docket. A well written, cogent, appropriate letter. I wish mine came out that well! Dammit!
A reminder to all. This is a NPRM. That stands for N otice of P roposed R ule M aking. Now is the time to articulate the problem, solution and the reason for the difference BEFORE it becomes the R ule.
[QUOTE=spin;43054] You can’t convince me American Businessmen will do ther honorable thing and keep ships All American when most have already went foreign flag years ago.[/QUOTE]
Or even the DOD. While RRF ships sit idle, foreign flagged and crewed ships are hauling American military cargoes. American aid is transported on foreign flag ships manned by foreign mariners. Why, because MARAD, the DOD, and the Department of Agriculture would rather save a few dollars than put American taxes back into our own economy.
If someone thinks the government has the best interests of the American worker or the American taxpayer in mind, someone will find nothing wrong with the NPRM.
[QUOTE=Capt. Schmitt;43085] This solicitation for comments is requesting input in how to implement this policy, not whether or not to implement it at all.[/QUOTE]
I am not going to tell them how I prefer to have my throat cut. I am not going quietly into the darkness.
They are going to read why I think the proposed policy is treasonous.
It is just wrong, plain and simple. It was produced by businessmen who could care less who starves to death so long as it makes money for them. It is given credence by corrupt politicians and USCG officials who move from writing policy in a cubicle to corporate boardrooms based on their willingness to participate in social and economic crimes against those they swore to serve.
Don’t tell them how to destroy you, fight this insanity. Rage against those who would take your livelihood for their own personal gain.
[QUOTE=cappy208;43093]…A reminder to all. This is a NPRM. That stands for N otice of P roposed R ule M aking. Now is the time to articulate the problem, solution and the reason for the difference BEFORE it becomes the R ule.[/QUOTE]
It’s not an NPRM. It is a notice and request for comments. It does not propose rulemaking, i.e. a change in the CFR. But yes, the time to comment is now, and via the docket.
[QUOTE=jdcavo;43106]It’s not an NPRM. It is a notice and request for comments. It does not propose rulemaking, i.e. a change in the CFR. But yes, the time to comment is now, and via the docket.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps that is so, but there are matters of policy that have to be decided by the USCG so even though they aren’t necessarily proposing a change to existing statutes or regulations then what [U]MUST HAPPEN[/U] is at least a new NVIC or NMC policy letter concerning the issuance of vessel manning waiver letters. The USCG needs to know that there are US companies out there who are now getting waivers for foreign mariners serving in positions reserved for US citizens under a pretext that there are “no qualified American mariners” available. Because these jobs are on non US flagged vessels, these foreign mariners do not need a CoE issued by the USCG and they are clearly taking jobs from US citizens. Add now a whole new group of CoE foreign officers legally certified to serve aboard a US flagged ship in an officer capacity (I am aware that 25% of unlicensed seamen on a US ship can legally be foreign nationals) and suddenly the lawyers at firms like Blank Rome LLP will stay up till the dawn to think up clever ways to convince the Department of Labor and USCG that suddenly there aren’t enough qualified US citizen mariners available for their clients to serve on their US flagged ships. Everybody who cares at all about this matter and those who deny that it is a threat to US seafarers need to read this article (http://www.blankrome.com/index.cfm?contentID=37&itemID=1970) written by Blank Rome LLP basically telling shipowners that there are ways to circumvent the regulations and statutes which are in place to reserve vessel jobs on the OCS for Americans. They actually have the gall to use the phrase “[U][I]where have all of the <?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = ST1 /><ST1:COUNTRY-REGION w:st=“on”><ST1:PLACE w:st=“on”>U.S.</ST1:PLACE></ST1:COUNTRY-REGION> citizens gone? Whether the shortage is an actual shortage of personnel [B]or a factor of undesirable wages and a lack of interest in an offshore career”[/B][/I][/U] Oh, how they dance around that there isn’t really an actual shortage but rather hint blatantly that US mariners want too much money or opine that we just don’t want to work offshore! Both are utter bullshit falsehoods. There are many foreign mariners (Norwegians) making more than their US counterparts on the OCS and nobody here can tell me that American mariners “lack an interest in an offshore career”! This forum is filled to overcapacity with American mariners trying to get a toehold in the Gulf of Mexico offshore industry! The worst part of all this is that the Department of Labor and USCG have fallen for the BS spun by Blank Rome and all their kindred ilk. F’ing Washington Law Firms…they are going to be the death of this industry and very likely this Nation!
Allowing jobs reserved to US seamen to go to foreigners has already happended, is currently still happening and will continue to happen in the future only with increased occurrance. Regardless of being NPRM status or not, what was proposed by the USCG in the Federal Register is filled with language that clearly indicates that the USCG is giving strong consideration to allowing an increase in the number of foreign mariners serving on US ships and THAT MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN! What is stated by the USCG in the Federal Register only benefits shipowners and foreign mariners. I see in not one sentence any statement that the USCG wants to ensure that US citizen seafarers continue to receive the rights afforded to them in both the United States Code and Code of Federal Regulations as they are both currently written. Force the companies asking for waiver letters to produce factual proof that they can’t find qualified American mariners rather that as it is now where the USCG must accept the claim without investigation. The policy needs to be changed to make the issuance of waiver letters automatically denied and truly force the companies making the requests actually PROVE their claims beyond any reasonable doubt. Make these requests for foreign manning waivers part of the public record including publishing them each in the Federal Register open for comment exactly like right now here with this proposal.
What is sadly happening is that the Washington Lobbyists have been hard at work at the USCG Headquarters just as they have been in the Congress and other branches of the Administration. Shipowners are pressuring the USCG to adopt the provisions in the STCW to recognize foreign certificates…once that happens then the Washington Lawyers will have all they need to turn this one “their” way.
[QUOTE=c.captain;43110]Perhaps that is so, but there are matters of policy that have to be decided by the USCG so even though they aren’t necessarily proposing a change to existing statutes or regulations then what [U]MUST HAPPEN[/U] is at least a new NVIC or NMC policy letter concerning the issuance of vessel manning waiver letters. The USCG needs to know that there are US companies out there who are now getting waivers for foreign mariners serving in positions reserved for US citizens under a pretext that there are “no qualified American mariners” available. Because these jobs are on non US flagged vessels, these foreign mariners do not need a CoE issued by the USCG and they are clearly taking jobs from US citizens. Add now a whole new group of CoE foreign officers legally certified to serve aboard a US flagged ship in an officer capacity (I am aware that 25% of unlicensed seamen on a US ship can legally be foreign nationals) and suddenly the lawyers at firms like Blank Rome LLP will stay up till the dawn to think up clever ways to convince the Department of Labor and USCG that suddenly there aren’t enough qualified US citizen mariners available for their clients to serve on their US flagged ships. Everybody who cares at all about this matter and those who deny that it is a threat to US seafarers need to read this article (http://www.blankrome.com/index.cfm?contentID=37&itemID=1970) written by Blank Rome LLP basically telling shipowners that there are ways to circumvent the regulations and statutes which are in place to reserve vessel jobs on the OCS for Americans. They actually have the gall to use the phrase “[I][U]where have all of the <?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = ST1 /><ST1:COUNTRY-REGION w:st=“on”><ST1:PLACE w:st=“on”>U.S.</ST1:PLACE></ST1:COUNTRY-REGION> citizens gone? Whether the shortage is an actual shortage of personnel [B]or a factor of undesirable wages and a lack of interest in an offshore career”[/B] [/U][/I]They admit clearly that there isn’t really an actual shortage but rather that US mariners want too much money or that we just don’t want to work offshore! Both are utter falsehoods. There are many foreign mariners (Norwegians) making more than their US counterparts on the OCS and nobody here can tell me that American mariners “lack an interest in an offshore career”! This forum is filled to overcapacity with American mariners trying to get a toehold in the Gulf of Mexico offshore industry! The worst part of all this is that the Department of Labor and USCG have fallen for the BS spun by Blank Rome and all their kindred ilk. F’ing Washington Law Firms…they are going to be the death of this industry and very likely this Nation!
Allowing jobs reserved to US seamen to go to foreigners has already happended, is currently still happening and will continue to happen in the future only with increased occurrance. Regardless of being NPRM status or not, what was proposed by the USCG in the Federal Register is filled with language that clearly indicates that the USCG is giving strong consideration to allowing an increase in the number of foreign mariners serving on US ships and THAT MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN! What is stated by the USCG in the Federal Register only benefits shipowners and foreign mariners. I see in not one sentence any statement that the USCG wants to ensure that US citizen seafarers continue to receive the rights afforded to them in both the United States Code and Code of Federal Regulations as they are both currently written. Force the companies asking for waiver letters to produce factual proof that they can’t find qualified American mariners rather that as it is now where the USCG must accept the claim without investigation. The policy needs to be changed to make the issuance of waiver letters automatically denied and truly force the companies making the requests actually PROVE their claims beyond and reasonable doubt. Make these requests part of the public record including publishing them each in the Federal Register open for comment exactly like right now here with this proposal.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=jdcavo;43106]It’s not an NPRM. It is a notice and request for comments. It does not propose rulemaking …[/QUOTE]
It doesn’t matter how much they massage the wording, it is still the same knife in our backs. The Notice is riddled with the terms; policies, procedures, proposed, and the real clincher - “anticipation of the regulatory changes.” They don’t give a damn about our advice, they are just doing market research, they want to know who is willing to buy this product, how much they will pay, and what kind of resistance they might encounter.
The only thing missing is the term NPRM but the address for comments is “Federal Rulemaking Portal” so trying to hide this behind the smokescreen that it is just a polite request for advice is disingenuous to say the least.
If they cared about advice, they would have presented this to MERPAC, the one organization that was established to provide advice on just this sort of issue. I suspect that the MERPAC meeting was cancelled because they really didn’t want to go face to face with the one group that would have given them some advice.
My advice to the USCG is to stand up for the flag and the American mariner. Stand up for the taxpayer who just funded your existence. Stand up for the security a strong American merchant marine brings this country. How about just stand up rather than bending over for every politician and businessman with a handful of money and promises.
This is the true subject of both the rule, the comments, and the reality. The USCG is more concerned with perpetuating it’s existence and making more jobs for more coasties, NOT doing what is right for the country, the mariners, or the citizens. The fact that this rule even has made it this far is testament to the reality of who’s pocket the CG is in, and who they are beholden too.
In a word… Disgusting.
And to anchorman: I ‘HOPE’ this won’t come to pass, and I ‘HOPE’ that some more intelligent people will read, heed, and lead to a more equitable position for US. That does NOT mean that I don’t ‘see’, or don’t ‘get it’ as you perceive it to be. But I know that this will take away US citizen mariners jobs, livelihoods and homes. You and I may not agree, and that’s OK, I wish you well when you see the foreign guy coming down the dock to relieve you. But by then it will be too late to try to change it.
[QUOTE=c.captain;42962]Then what do YOU propose Mr. seadawg?[/QUOTE]
Mr. seadawg proposes: that everyone who is concerned should “make comment as a matter of record”…look for this “issue” to be “ratified” regardless how ever you want to describe it…expect no provisions for “safe guarding” US mariners jobs…corporate management should “mutate” this “proposal” to their advantage…look for waivers to be “granted” and jobs to be “outsourced”!!
FYI…back in the 80’s I worked on offshore tugs for Tidewater in the GoM that had “unlicensed mates” from Honduras…of course the company had “waivers” for this “exception”??
as far as associations/unions are concerned: neither have been very successful in the “recent past”…the GCMA(NMA)/GoM unionization debacle some years back and MTVA/“TOAR 30 day wonder” come to mind…“associations” tend to be always “too little too late”!!
forget your politicians for the present… they are either running for their lives or hiding under their “rock”!!
I would propose CNN or FOX…but alas our numbers are too insignificant to matter to the media “suits”!!
to quote Capt Ron…“Alright, that’s more like it, now you’re talking. You can do it, mates. I’ve never seen such sailors. Not in all my born days, I ain’t. Naturals. My God, everyone of you, naturals… We’re gonna fucking die”!!may the US mariner RIP!!
