Do they take that shiny pin away if you let a huge radar target run into you?
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They can pull your OOD qual 
You get a complimentary copy of John W. Trimmerâs book: âHow to Avoid Huge Shipsâ. 
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Maybe they should keep a copy on the bridge right next to the collision alarm button.
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Canât take too much issue with your SWO posting. In my case, it was a LOT more than 480 hours on the bridge before the Captain Robert F. Dunn qualified me as OOD - and I was a âhot runnerâ amongst 12 Ensigns as well. And that was in 1973âŚ
As to the SWO pin, it doesnât come with the OOD qual, but a good bit further down the line.
So after 4 years at the academy and 10 years of service the nav watch on the bridge of most navy ships has only weeks of credible nav watch experience? Your telling me a 3rd mate academy grad with an ink wet license has more bridge watch time as a cadet than a seasoned naval officer? This is real life? Whatâs the average timeline for advancement from Annapolis to making XO? How long as XO until you get to be CO of your own ship?
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I didnât go to âthe Academyâ, and canât answer for that. I was an enlisted sailor for seven years before I got commissioned and saw my first bridge.
I donât recall in your post where it indicated âonly weeksâ after ten years of service. I thought you estimated an OOD qual after about 60 underway days of three-section watch. Might happen. Canât say. Sure as hell didnât happen to me or any of the other Ensigns on the USS Mount Whitney (LCC-20) in 1972-74.
And that fresh Ensign goes to quite a lot of specialized training after commissioning and before getting to that ship. The item below is excerpted from here: https://www.thebalance.com/surface-warfare-officer-3356616
Training Pipeline following commission: Upon commissioning, officers who select Surface Warfare undergo 17 weeks of intensive instruction at the Surface Warfare Officers School Division Officer Course (SWOSDOC) in Newport, Rhode Island. The first 11 weeks of SWOSDOC are common for all Surface Warfare candidates and emphasizes the basics of shipboard management, combat systems, ship control, and surface ship fundamentals. The final 6 weeks of SWOSDOC are ship class specific and center of the engineering systems in that class. SWOSDOC is designed to provide the tools needed for a successful first sea assignment. After completing the SWOSDOC Core, you will be sent to a specialty school for instruction focused on the requirements of your first job. Specialty schools include Anti-submarine Warfare Officer, Engineering Division Officer, Damage Control Assistant, and Communications Officer. Most of these schools are in Newport and are from 3 to 7 weeks long. Total time in Newport is 23 to 26 weeks.
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Iâm not concerned with all the different training to receive whatever qualification.
What Iâm looking for is after 10 years of being in the navy how many actual days does the guy manning the bridge of a frigate, destroyer whatever have standing an underway nav watch? That includes any post yard period sea trials and any pre deployment underway training. I want to know if Iâve been in the navy for 10 years and I find myself as OOD on the bridge at 0200 whatâs the typical amount of time Iâve spent in my career staring out the bridge windows in the darkness at other ships nav lights? How many nights have I been the officer in charge of the nav watch staring at ship traffic on the bridge radar and navigating congested high traffic areas?
How many years does it take to go from FNG to being an XO and how many years as XO to be CO of my own ship?
The best answer I can give you is not a happy one. 
As many other posters have pointed out, the deck watches are - generally - stood by the junior officers, i.e. the Ensigns, LT(jg)s, and maybe some LTs on larger ships. These are the Division Officers on the ship, and vary from fresh onboard to two or three years experience. The Department Heads (DH) usually stand watch as Tactical Action Officer (TAO) in CIC, and the XO doesnât stand watch.
So, once an officer is a DH, their bridge time is limited, unless they are the Conning Officer or OOD for special details or General Quarters. The XO and CO are usually on the bridge at those times as well. It is NOT a system where the Deck Officers, i.e. 3rd, 2nd and Chief, stand watch and gain more and more bridge time and experience as the service years accrue. The XO tour is about 18-21 months on the ship, but not standing deck watch like a Chief Mate.
I think thatâs the info you were looking for. Perhaps not what you wanted to read, but likely what you expected.
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Well thatâs not good at all.
So starting as an ensign how many years of rotating from shore duty and back to the fleet and working all the different duty stations onboard before the average officer is qualified enough to be up for an XO assignment? How many years as an XO before they can be recommended for their own ship command?
Moving up as a SWO is a progression of statutory selection boards and non-statutory screening boards, with required qualifications thrown in the sequence. For example:
- qualify as Surface Warfare Officer
- Select as Lieutenant (4 years after commissioning - about 100% promotion)
- Screen for Department Head. Serve well in two DH tours.
- Select for Lieutenant Commander (promotion about 10 years atter commissioning - about 80% selection)
- Qualify for surface command
- Screen for XO. Not all newly selected LCDRs will successfully screen for XO.
- Serve successfully as XO
- Select for Commander (promotion at about 16 years after commissioning - about 70% selection)
- Screen for Command. Not all newly selected CDRs will successfully screen for CO.
- Serve as CO as a CDR, on a frigate, destroyer, etc.
Sorry for the detail, but you can see that it is a progression that has fewer and fewer folks as you move up. SWOs donât screen for DH, or donât do well and donât select for LCDR. Or make LCDR but donât screen for XO. Or donât select for CDR, or select for CDR but donât screen for Command. (That was the end of the ladder for me).
Iâd be guessing here, but I think a maritime academy graduate who works hard and stays on ships can have a Chief Mates ticket after 720 days at sea (three to four years on a busy ship), and has a better shot at a Chief Mate slot long before a SWO is likely to be an XO. Iâd also guess that a lot of Chief Mates have Master tickets and no open slots. Please note that nothing in this paragraph is meant to be harsh, or negative in any way, for the merchant marine service.
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It takes 360 sea days (two years of equal time work) to apply for 2M. Then another 360 sea days (2 years of work) sailing on the 2M license (note: the time doesnât begin until the 2M license is issued). At some point in there you needed to complete all the classes and assessments required to apply for CM, apply, be approved to test, study, test, and be issued the new license. Then you need to wait until you are suitably experienced for a company to hire you as CM and theyâre also be an opening. Since most USMM attrition is in the early stages most chief mates are lifers and waiting for a Master position, which means your need to wait for a captain to be fired or retire in order for everyone to move up a notch. Then youâre looking at a few years as Chief Mate before possibly being considered for a Master position.
The soonest you could possibly be licensed as Chief Mate (on a conventional ship where you donât get day and a half time) is 4 years if you time everything perfectly. Maybe if you do straight time at MSC you can get time a little faster.
It sounds to me like a Chief Mate license requires more bridge watch-keeping experience than being the CO of a USN destroyer, let alone actually passing an interview for a CM position.
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Iâll certainly agree with that. But being CO includes all the management and responsibility of the Master, plus all the war fighting expertise for that ship. I really think we are trying to compare apples to oranges with the merchant marine and the navy - they are just too different in their roles. The Commanding Officer of a ship has non-judicial punishment authority that might surprise you, e.g. a mid-grade petty officer can be reduced in grade, fined the equivalent of a monthâs pay, extra duty for 45 days and confinement to the ship for 45 days.
When I was on a shore post after my XO tour, I was working with a lot of maritime academy grads who were USNR officers. I went through a lengthy process to validate ALL of my underway days from commissioning in 1972 to end of sea time in 1987. The REC in Baltimore evaluated all the paperwork I got from the Bureau of Naval Personnel and determined that I had sufficient underway deck time to sit for Chief Mate (83 days short for Master), and that included 1080 days just for 3rd since I was a âmustangâ. My sea and shore jobs in engineering also earned sitting for 1st A/E Steam, Unlimited HP, but I didnât follow up on that. My service was a bit different in that I spent 13 of 21 commissioned years on sea duty, including the first eight after commissioning. Just plain loved it out there. 
But the CO is the most experienced watch stander onboard and the person the OOD calls for advice, yet he really doesnât have much collision avoidance experience. Thatâs kind of the point of this discussion, that the SWO career track is trying to do too much such that these officers do a lot of things poorly instead of being experts in a chosen niche.
Noted, and understood. While others above have suggested that the navy should put specialist ship drivers on the deck, and I assume it is what you are alluding to as well, it just isnât likely to happen. While almost any licensed MM mate would do fine on the navy bridge from a navigational perspective, what about all the other stuff that the OOD has to do? The OOD is the COâs rep and has to be cognizant of almost every evolution taking place on the ship, and was probably asked permission for it to proceed. How often have you launched and recovered helos from your ship? We do that with the regular underway watch. Prepared the ship for underway replenishment, day or night? Given permission for weapons transfers or exercising of weapons systems? All this is one reason we have an OOD, plus a JOOD who is usually the conning officer.
I am not trying to be argumentative here. I just go back to my earlier statement that we are comparing apples to oranges, and we are unhappy with the resultant lemonade.
As mentioned by someone in an earlier post why not have a few Jr officers that are strictly bridge nav watch? They have specialists for every other position on the ship. It may be a warship but itâs a ship none the less when itâs underway. A responsible adult has to be staring out the windows driving the thing. Rules of the road still need to be adhered to. Why not an officer whoâs specialty is safe navigation and ship handling?
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Actually, in the USN they donât have specialist officers for other positions on the ship. I can name several other nations who have such specialist officers, but not the surface USN.
What career path would you offer these junior officers that are strictly bridge nav watch? While they would likely excel at that skill set, they would have no path for advancement. Unless you see them becoming more senior so they could be on larger ships? Not a differentiation made in the MM re deck watch officers. Ah, why not commission every maritime academy graduate in the USNR and put them on USN surface ships as deck watch officers for four years, then release them for their MM career? That might be a solution to the USN issue, but not sure it would help the MM officers in their âreal careerâ. Thoughts, or comments?
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Correct. Iâm not talking civilians, but specialists none the less.
They do ok on a drill ship bridge coordinating all the different evolutions that needed to go on.
See my previous reply. Itâs not a massively difficult thing to learn.
Iâm going to try to remember that twist on the saying.
One thing thatâs been proposed is an engineering track culminating in Chief Engineer, a deck track culminating in Sailing Master (who assists the CO in a lot of the administrative duties), and a tactical track leading to CO. The sailing master has final authority in non-tactical vessel movement.
Or simply make SWOs actually spend their careers shipboard and cut out most of the shore duty assignments.
In the navy today who creates and enters the routes in the nav equipment? I was QM in the CG and there I did it as E-4 but supervised by an E-7.
Where the track-lines get laid in that area is important as it needs to be done with traffic patterns in mind.
It would be strange for an officer to refer to an enlisted (non-licensed) person as âshipmateâ. Thereâs supposed to be a separation. If I know someone is an officer I call them âsirâ or âmaâamâ; shipmate is more for enlisted people. It is starting to fall out of favor as people have abused it and tried to assign negative meanings to it â even, disappointingly, officers and senior enlisted â but it is supposed to be the nautical term for a brother or sister at sea. Thatâs how I used it when I was in the USN. Itâs still pretty common for Navy veterans to address each other as shipmate.
He wasnât talking to me when he said that, bro. But I must say it the attitude on this web site toward people who put their lives at risk to protect Americans is quite disappointing. Especially when it comes from fellow veterans.
So, what, the intention is that anyone who doesnât think the Navy is the most incompetent organization in the history of the world and is composed of stupid, incompetent people, must be run off the web site? Is that your opinion?
If not, why not just relax and discuss our experiences at sea?
If so, then there arenât going to be many Navy veterans contributing to the conversation. This place will be an echo chamber for people who have certain opinions. I hated the Navy as a job. I hated it PASSIONATELY as a job.
I was a paperclipâŚâPeople Against People Ever Re-enlisting, Civilian Life is Preferredâ.
BUT it is great institution with a rich history, and we owe our freedom to what Navy officers and enlisted personnel do every day, all around the world. I worked with some very intelligent and very talented people when I served in the United States Navy. So that organization will always have my respect. As a veteran of the United States Armed Forces, anyone who was worn a military uniform, in any branch, and served with honor, will have my respect.
gCaptainâs original article wasnât as bad as many of the comments from people who are associating themselves with his opinions. I thought his article was reasonably balanced. But you look at the comments on the web site and itâs nothing but vitriol. Even from people who identify themselves as (merchant marine) officers. In the UCMJ it says an officer must conduct themselves as âan officer and a gentlemanâ, or for females, âan officer and a lady.â
And I have to tell you that Navy officers and enlisted people donât feel this animosity toward merchant mariners at all. At least I donât. Youâre fellow mariners. We have a lot of common experiences. If you guys have a problem with usâŚthat drama is coming from you. Not from the United States Navy or the men and women who serve our country in that Navy.
If you sense any degree of hostility from me, I apologize, as that is not my intention.
I wonder, however, if that is the intention of people on this web site. If so, that is very disappointing.