Is it illegal to support unions?


#301

I know it may be difficult to read through all this shit, but the idea isn’t that you need or want a union, but that jeaux boss has no right to make you sign an oath specifying what you can and can’t support and to demand you all rat on your shipmates. If you’re going to do that, at least have the conversation with captains off the record.

Many of us have dabbled in Orange and blue paint, it’s not for everyone.


#302

[QUOTE=That One Guy;160984]Oh man, let me tell you, ECO is a great company! Yeah I signed that shit. Big whoop. We don’t need to unionize down here. That would actually suck.

ECO pretty much lets us work the schedule we want, do what we need, so long as we have our spots covered when we want time off. (Something that is very easy to do) I’ve been allowed to work over for months on end, just because I felt like it. Also, what other company do you know of has ever shelled out Tens of Thousands of dollars to employees whom were effected by hurricanes down here? Any?? Especially Katrina. Gary did that. Furthermore, Gary has personally stood up for a number of employees who faced the chopping block, saying - Let them weather this fuck up, and they’ll be a much better employee for it - Haha, maybe not in those exact words, but my point stands.

My department managers have been very straight forward in communicating the company’s strategy during the down turn. Meanwhile, I am still making great money and working with a great crew. I’m laughing all the way to the bank. Thanks Gary!

Haha, and that c.captain guy… What a silly duckling… His quacking is hilarious. Uneducated about ECO to the same level as a wet dish towel. I like his enthusiasm though, ineloquent as it might be.

Oh, and I’ll say it again. I signed that paper. Life goes on. Sweet, sweet, sweet.[/QUOTE]

Honest question…

Have you or would you rat out a shipmate who discussed the U word?

Since you signed and all.


#303

Have you or would you rat out a shipmate who discussed the U word???

Whaaaat??!! No man, absolutely never. Damn son.

The outrage to about this letter or whatever, is just funny to me. The reason why, it was not mandatory that we signed it. The managers made it clear that we always have the right to pursue unionization should we want to. I know the wording in the actual letter doesn’t seem to agree with that. So, who knows there. Basically, it was sign or don’t, no big deal, just forget about it. If trouble comes to the peeps that didn’t sign, well that remains to be seen.


#304

[QUOTE=That One Guy;160997]Have you or would you rat out a shipmate who discussed the U word???

Whaaaat??!! No man, absolutely never. Damn son.

The outrage to about this letter or whatever, is just funny to me. The reason why, it was not mandatory that we signed it. The managers made it clear that we always have the right to pursue unionization should we want to. I know the wording in the actual letter doesn’t seem to agree with that. So, who knows there. Basically, it was sign or don’t, no big deal, just forget about it. If trouble comes to the peeps that didn’t sign, well that remains to be seen.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough.


#305

[QUOTE=That One Guy;160993]Haha, good stuff. But rest assured, as whimsical as I may precent my opinion, it is an educated one. This guy has been around the block, and the world. Actually, got my start commercially in the good old PNW. One love![/QUOTE]

like any of us give a SHIT about where the FUCK you have been…

you are nobody here

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[QUOTE=That One Guy;160997]Basically, it was sign or don’t, [B][U]no big deal[/U][/B], just forget about it. If trouble comes to the peeps that didn’t sign, well that remains to be seen.[/QUOTE]

You’re FUCKING kidding…right? Men losing their jobs because they refuse to sign a “loyalty oath” is a VERY BIG DEAL!

.


#306

Oh baby, I totally agree with that last statement, if it were actually happening at ECO currently. I haven’t seen or heard of it. We have guys that didn’t sign and are just fine. Maybe only for the time being, I sure hope that isn’t the case. Really this thing has been one of those, “everything is a big deal until it isn’t” type of things.

Take it from someone who has been on both sides. I’ve reaped the sweet rewards of the ILWU on the Seattle waterfront, but that wouldn’t help anyone down here. I’m sure I’ll get shit for that too.

Everyone stay tuned! :wink: Or should I say, “stay tooned”? Baddee, baddee, that’s all folks!


#307

[QUOTE=That One Guy;160993]Haha, good stuff. But rest assured, as whimsical as I may precent my opinion, it is an educated one. This guy has been around the block, and the world. Actually, got my start commercially in the good old PNW. One love![/QUOTE]

Who the fuck is this guy?


#308

"One Love"from the GoM? Something don’t smell right…


#309

The “names” of those that don’t sign go to the 3rd Floor and only the # of those that “do” are being kept on the 3rd Floor. In my opinion the one ones that have signed will not be to happy soon. Things are going down hill my frinend.


#310

[QUOTE=catherder;160998]Fair enough.[/QUOTE]

Far from “fair.” It doesn’t matter if the policy is has been routinely or consistently enforced or not, the fact remains that the company published the thing and made employees sign it.

There have been many cases of companies producing employee manuals which contain illegal policies and they have been nailed for it. This is one of those that should and hopefully will lead to a large fine and set an example for other fascist coonass employers.


#311

[QUOTE=That One Guy;160997] Basically, it was sign or don’t, no big deal, just forget about it. If trouble comes to the peeps that didn’t sign, well that remains to be seen.[/QUOTE]

So, why did you sign it? Because you are happy to sign anything that is put in front of you? Or was it because you believed or knew that if you didn’t it placed your employment or advancement potential at risk, either immediately or at some future time?

People don’t just sign shit like that because it is “no big deal” to agree to adhere to illegal labor practices that can only hurt you and your co-workers. Your argument just doesn’t hold water. I believe you signed it because you were afraid not to.

The only person you will convince with your argument is yourself and it sounds to me like you are struggling to justify your own lack of backbone.


#312

[QUOTE=pwrmariner;160591]Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe no one has stated unions are nothing but peaches and cream, rainbows and unicorns.[/QUOTE]

Unions are nothing but peaches and cream, rainbows and unicorns. There.


#313

[QUOTE=wcrutch;161011]Who the fuck is this guy?[/QUOTE]

I don’t know but he is rapidly headed to the pantheon of gCaptain’s most odious and regrettable characters.


#314

[QUOTE=JB Slave;161018]The “names” of those that don’t sign go to the 3rd Floor and only the # of those that “do” are being kept on the 3rd Floor. In my opinion the one ones that have signed will not be to happy soon. Things are going down hill my frinend.[/QUOTE]

I was gonna say but I was not inclined to engage him further last night…if he thinks there’s no “consequences” to not signing, he’s nuts.


#315

Okay okay, I’ll try to put my sarcasm on hold. I can’t promise for how long. It might be easy today, as after crew change I had a lot of good Scotch, compliments Gary. So, I’m not at 100%

Though I could not keep up with every post in this avalanche of a thread, it appeared to me that all the ranting was based on second hand information. I figured I’d offer some first hand insight, as unpopular of a position as that might be to play. Obviously, many of you are far more worked up over it than I. So any who, that’s what it is, for whatever it’s worth. I’m not trying to rain on anyone’s hate parade. If that is what makes you all happy. I think we all know there will be no satisfaction to be found here.

Should anyone just sign any legal document that is thrown before them? Absolutely not. I would hope you wouldn’t do that out of fear. I believe, in regards to the letter at hand, we can question its legality any way. Did I sign out of fear? Nah, I have a good track record and credentials. Should I lose my job, I can work somewhere else. I prefer not to sweat it. It’s all about perspective. Now I’m happy, so I won’t push it or act like I don’t care.

Why did I sign? Look, that letter isn’t going to hold me or any of my crew mates down now or in the future. The unions most likely won’t get a grip on this company. I also wouldn’t be a fan of that happening any way. No skin off my back saying I won’t do something I wasn’t gonna do to begin with. If the unions make a push, that may cause the companies to break off a little more cheese, but I’m not gonna push them for hopes of a raise. That would be pretty shady. And talking about shady, who remembers the tactics the unions used last time they made a push down here? Joe Boss might not always hold to the integrity that they should, but nor does any union. Unions are in the business of making money. Just like the rest of them. If you think the little guy is their main concern, well that is just naivety.

This letter will come and go, just like the one every ECO employee signed at hiring.

Now, if those that didn’t sign, do in fact start dropping from the roster, what a concerning day that will be. We are all in agreement there. However, like I said before, I haven’t seen it or heard of it.

Damn, too early to be writing all that! Time to crack a beer. I’ll have an extra one for my homie c.capt.


#316

[QUOTE=cajuntugster;160876][QUOTE=z-drive;160449]How the fuck is it illegal to support a union? You can support whoever the hell you want. Company policy can ask you not to, but you’re free to do whatever you want with your money. We all know they can fire you under an alternate pretense though.

What say the chouest apologists? The issue is with the policy, not whether or not unions are good or not, or wanted or not.

Everyone needs to read the policy that was written, not the policy they want to read.

il·le·gal (ĭ-lē′gəl) adj. 1. Prohibited by law. 2. Prohibited by official rules: an illegal pass in football. 3. Unacceptable to or not performable by a …

.As you can read, Illegal does not pertain only to the law, federal, state, or local. It can refer to company policies, just like in the “Oath” that CC posted. Furthermore, it only asks you to sign if you agree.
I have been screwed over by both SIU and AMO in the past, so yes I think Unions are nothing more than parasites. However, I have not and never will work for ECO, I know too many people who have and their stories tell me all I need to know about them. As for supporting unions, of course you have that right, just not on company time or property.

Is this “Oath” any more illegal than a company that will not allow you to work for it’s competitor on your time off? A company that requires you to sign a pledge of confidentiality or promise not to work for their competitor for at least a year after you quit them?.

We all can go on and on with anectdotal examples of each side of this coin, but to answer the ORIGINAL question? OF course it is legal for ECO to ask an employee to support their company policies.[/QUOTE]

So… It seems there has been a tremendous amount of discussion back and forth on the subject. Mostly civil and polite (I am very impressed), some a little off the mark going for or against the union, but all-in-all it seems there is a general consensus that legal or illegal the document leaves a bad taste in everyone’s mouth sans the most extreme on one side of the aisle. Is it possible that we could hammer out a middle of the road charter that every single member of gCaptain could sign without reservation? Is that even possible? Not Union vs Non-Union, but indeed a simple and effective strategy that combines the positives of both and serves no one but the working mariner.

  1. Can a mariner work and receive merit based raises, bonuses, promotions, etc. without the requirements the all are paid the same regardless of their effectiveness on the job but only based on seniority.
  2. Can a company hire and fire fairly. Not at a whim or based on thin the herd at any cost. Certainly not because you fail to break all the companies rules when it is inconvenient for them.
  3. Can a mariner that is somewhat protected be fair and objective when given a task that might be out of their scope of normal duties but for the short term and the spirit of getting the job done?
  4. How can we maintain productivity yet not be subject to coercion to do it at all costs.
  5. How can a company that needs to thin the herd due to downsize, cutbacks, etc. do so without attorneys?
  6. How can a mariner have some protections without the need to keep an attorney on call? Or fear loosing his job for not agreeing or at the very least not being fully supportive on any certain policy.
  7. Can protest and discussions be made without strikes, slowdowns, etc. (That is a challenge for both sides)

Very interested in why we, working mariners, can’t have both. Is one only possible because of money that is to be made on either side of the discussion? This is probably the only forum that might actually have a chance of at least an attempt at drafting such a document. So of you seem to have a better than average education… spit out some ideas.


#317

thanks for raising valuable and pertinent questions which are indeed timely to the discussion…let us hope we can together answer them for you and for us…


#318

before this gets too serious and somebody gets pissed off…


#319

[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;161124]before this gets too serious and somebody gets pissed off…[/QUOTE]

I’ll take this one for one thousand Johnny


#320

I have worked for Companies that have put out letters like this in the past. Some I signed some I did not. It is times like this that I’m glad that I’m retired, yes from a Union. I grew up listening to my Old Man (Who was in Upper Management, Tug, Barges and Tankers) talk about how he liked Unions as it kept a level playing field. As for me I have worked Non-Union for some really good companies that took care of their employees. I have also worked on some union boats that were full of dead beats that carried the Union Book in Their Back Pocket.

It is pretty clear that they guys in the Oil Patch, who have worked there for a long time, were born and raised down there or have not worked anywhere else have no interest in Unions. But, there are a lot of Guys (or were before the blood letting) that have come to the Gulf from other sections of the Maritime World. These are the workers that they are afraid of and that is my opinion of why this letter came out. I have to wonder if there was some talk on the Boats from these “New Guys” about Unions and somehow it got back to the office. Gee, I wonder how the office found out about some innocent Galley Talk got up to the office, Can you say Office Rats?

As it stands now I do not think you could get them (for lack of a better term Good Ol Boys) to even consider signing Pledge Card as they have been born and raised to hate unions.

Only Time will tell if things really change with all of the High Tech Boats. Now, I am not saying that the Local Guys can’t handle these high tech boat because I am sure that there are a bunch of them that are very good at their jobs. In the coming years there will be More and More Academy Grads coming to the Patch as they have to go somewhere and as they move up the ladder attitudes will change. If the percentage of Outsiders surpasses the Local Guys things might get interesting. This has happened in the Tug and Barge Industry so do not think that it can not happen down there! And These New Guys might just want to hear what a Union has to say.