Is it illegal to support unions?


#321

[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;161124]before this gets too serious and somebody gets pissed off…

[/QUOTE]

you gonna eat that?


#322

[QUOTE=Tugs;161129]I have worked for Companies that have put out letters like this in the past. Some I signed some I did not. It is times like this that I’m glad that I’m retired, yes from a Union. I grew up listening to my Old Man (Who was in Upper Management, Tug, Barges and Tankers) talk about how he liked Unions as it kept a level playing field. As for me I have worked Non-Union for some really good companies that took care of their employees. I have also worked on some union boats that were full of dead beats that carried the Union Book in Their Back Pocket.

It is pretty clear that they guys in the Oil Patch, who have worked there for a long time, were born and raised down there or have not worked anywhere else have no interest in Unions. But, there are a lot of Guys (or were before the blood letting) that have come to the Gulf from other sections of the Maritime World. These are the workers that they are afraid of and that is my opinion of why this letter came out. I have to wonder if there was some talk on the Boats from these “New Guys” about Unions and somehow it got back to the office. Gee, I wonder how the office found out about some innocent Galley Talk got up to the office, Can you say Office Rats?

As it stands now I do not think you could get them (for lack of a better term Good Ol Boys) to even consider signing Pledge Card as they have been born and raised to hate unions.

Only Time will tell if things really change with all of the High Tech Boats. Now, I am not saying that the Local Guys can’t handle these high tech boat because I am sure that there are a bunch of them that are very good at their jobs. In the coming years there will be More and More Academy Grads coming to the Patch as they have to go somewhere and as they move up the ladder attitudes will change. If the percentage of Outsiders surpasses the Local Guys things might get interesting. This has happened in the Tug and Barge Industry so do not think that it can not happen down there! And These New Guys might just want to hear what a Union has to say.[/QUOTE]

Academy grads… If there ever was a Trojan Horse full of mariners, it would be stuffed with academy grads. It might be the downfall of the good ol boy network. Think these products of the institutions are probably more prone than not to support union ideals. Guess time will tell.


#323

I have never served anything of the sort in all my years of business.


#324

Don’t get your hopes most of us owners take care of our people. I consider my Mariners my most important asset.


#325

[QUOTE=Ea$y Money;161132]Academy grads… If there ever was a Trojan Horse full of mariners, it would be stuffed with academy grads. [/QUOTE]

I remember a bunch of years ago being chief mate on a breakbulk ship that had something like three recent academy punks sailing as A/B. When a third mate’s job suddenly opened due to the guy with the job suddenly becoming unfit, these three were ready to kill eachother for that opening.

not one bit of honor amongst them and I swear it is how the AMO has managed with their business model of undercutting the other unions because they always kept plenty of young and very hungry bodies on the books willing to take the work for next to nothing.

It might be the downfall of the good ol boy network. Think these products of the institutions are probably more prone than not to support union ideals. Guess time will tell.

I seriously doubt that


#326

Academy kids are great you gotta get them when they just start out. Mold them into the type of Mariners you’re looking for.


#327

I think more damage would be done to the coonass mafia if some of the GoM mariners were able to work on their Norwegian brethrens vessels. The whole perspective would change in terms of crew comfort and standards.

Wouldn’t matter if you were union or not, orange, blue or black hulled; you would not be content with the pathetic conditions of these vessels in the GoM.


#328

That’s a powerful name to be using there John.


#329

[QUOTE=coldduck;161195]That’s a powerful name to be using there John.[/QUOTE]Who is John Galt?


#330

[QUOTE=Jeaux Bawss;161191]Academy kids are great you gotta get them when they just start out. Mold them into the type of Mariners you’re looking for.[/QUOTE]
Just what would you mold them too ? The type of mariner that succumbs to the boss to every whim? Sign a “loyalty oath” without question? The kind of mariner that can only do repetitive work ? Just like the rest of the GOM mariners ? Why is this the problem ? I don’t know, but that what we worked on last … Uh dah…


#331

[QUOTE=Jeaux Bawss;161135]Don’t get your hopes most of us owners take care of our people. I consider my Mariners my most important asset.[/QUOTE]

You’ll care till we disagree about the wisdom of say, towing with the fuel vents underwater. No thanks, if you care I’d like to get that in writing, as in a contract. That way when I tell you the boat is a POS you still have to “care”.


#332

[QUOTE=Jeaux Bawss;161135]Don’t get your hopes most of us owners take care of our people. I consider my Mariners my most important asset.[/QUOTE]

You take care of them until you have to decide, 401k that you already agreed to give them, OR a new private “business” jet, tough decisions when it come’s to your most important asset. Same idea as telling them that supporting a union is illegal, not something one would do to their most important asset.

If you, as and employer is SO good to their employees in a right to work state where union support is already low, I’d be throwing them reverse psychology and not fight the union thing. Odds are they’d not go for it, and even if so, odds are it would be one of the shit unions and drive down wages putting more in jeaux’s pockets! That way you come out on top a joe-coool, not jeaux-beaux.


#333

Yes I do not understand the wisdom of matching in lump some at the end of the year. If the people are vested it makes sense to match each pay period or at least monthly. I find Gary’s handling of this whole things distasteful. Also there is no need for a union if you have an honest open door with your employees. I do not have these problems with my Mariners. I am the hub of the wheel and they are the spokes and together we make this whole hing turn.


#334

[QUOTE=Jeaux Bawss;161229]Yes I do not understand the wisdom of matching in lump some at the end of the year. If the people are vested it makes sense to match each pay period or at least monthly. I find Gary’s handling of this whole things distasteful. Also there is no need for a union if you have an honest open door with your employees. I do not have these problems with my Mariners. I am the hub of the wheel and they are the spokes and together we make this whole hing turn.[/QUOTE]

That’s a win win if you can maintain. Always thought it was interesting that the highest pay was in a non-union sector, so it must be about? Control? If it is about control and being able to manipulate the work force… Is there a middle ground? I posted some thoughts on a middle ground charter but so far no ideas very few comments. Can mariners maintain productivity make money for their employer and still have some protection from being fired on a whim? Heard of entire boat crews being fired, even the ones on their off time, because of one incident. The trust is gone from both sides.


#335

[QUOTE=Jeaux Bawss;161229]Also there is no need for a union if you have an honest open door with your employees. I do not have these problems with my Mariners. I am the hub of the wheel and they are the spokes and together we make this whole hing turn.[/QUOTE] Yes there is a need for a union cause there is no " honest Open Door Policy " 100% of the time 24/7 365 for years on end. There is injustice outcomes by way of nepotism and a self proclaimed “honest ODP”. Are you going to say GOM employers are just as bound to an employee handbook as the employee? If your gonna say that I call bull shit. Without a union who is going to fight for the employee when the employer crawfishes on promises ? To say the problems do not exist at your company I call bull shit. Bosses get boss answers not truthful answers but answers to gain the favor of the boss. A large percentage of GOM mariners are incompetent at their jobs but masters of manipulation and faking the funk.


#336

There is no need for a union if everyone understands how the business works. When benefits have to be walked back this is a serious issue not taken lightly. I have to balance taking care of everyone and keeping the company afloat. When we are faced with the desperate times we find ourselves in everyone should be understanding. It’s not just you on the vessels there are people I see everyday around the office they may have to be let go. Shoreside staff is trimmed first and sometimes harder. They are getting most of the same benefits and in most cases half to only a third of the pay. If money is not coming in what am I to do? Having a union tell me I have to pay out money regardless will do no good. If these people were reasonable to deal with it would be different. I would rather go to my Mariners and lay things out and tell them that we are all going to feel some pain here but at least I can keep you guys working.

What promises were made in an employee handbook?

Why do you state a large percentage of GOM Mariners are incompetent? I find our Mariners to be very competent and intelligent.

What is “faking the funk”?


#337

[QUOTE=Ea$y Money;161232]That’s a win win if you can maintain. [B]Always thought it was interesting that the highest pay was in a non-union sector[/B], so it must be about? Control? If it is about control and being able to manipulate the work force… Is there a middle ground? I posted some thoughts on a middle ground charter but so far no ideas very few comments. Can mariners maintain productivity make money for their employer and still have some protection from being fired on a whim? Heard of entire boat crews being fired, even the ones on their off time, because of one incident. The trust is gone from both sides.[/QUOTE]

I’m still trying to understand where this often stated idea of non-union paying higher than union comes from… It’s not just you that has used words such as ‘always thought it was interesting…’ to make these points. Some non-union LDO jobs pay better than some union LDO jobs at some unions on some ships. It’s certainly nowhere near a blanket truth.

The GOM up until very recently has gone through an insane wage spike (which has clearly ended). I do not know about towing or harbor tugs, but I do know a guy at Genesis making $850/day plus a $20K annual bounus (guaranteed) with a 1600T MOT. Also, insane, I think. Not to denigrate his skills, but really?

When Gulfmark starts handing out pay cuts ranging from 12 (night watch mates/DPOs) to 22% (mates still training and not DP certified) (facts, not speculation or sea story) the pay comparison argument (which was nothing more than a temporary one) is short lived. When ECO starts retroactively not paying out the entire previous year’s 401K match, the argument is also weakened further.

When companies like HGMI pays a new 3/M grad only a month or 2 out of A&M $850/day (fact, not speculation or sea story), I consider them to be nothing less than fools. And the same goes for anybody else who would do the same, including drillers who will hire brand new mates and engineers out of academies for a $100k, when they could have gotten them for probably $75-80K.

I don’t work union right now, but when I feel the need to contemplate the possibility of MMP wages getting cut anywhere near 22%, then I’ll have something to worry about.


#338

Crowley is a large union tug company. Their wages are lower than just about every other tug company.


#339

[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;161276]I’m still trying to understand where this often stated idea of non-union paying higher than union comes from… It’s not just you that has used words such as ‘always thought it was interesting…’ to make these points. Some non-union LDO jobs pay better than some union LDO jobs at some unions on some ships. It’s certainly nowhere near a blanket truth.

The GOM up until very recently has gone through an insane wage spike (which has clearly ended). I do not know about towing or harbor tugs, but I do know a guy at Genesis making $850/day plus a $20K annual bounus (guaranteed) with a 1600T MOT. Also, insane, I think. Not to denigrate his skills, but really?

When Gulfmark starts handing out pay cuts ranging from 12 (night watch mates/DPOs) to 22% (mates still training and not DP certified) (facts, not speculation or sea story) the pay comparison argument (which was nothing more than a temporary one) is short lived. When ECO starts retroactively not paying out the entire previous year’s 401K match, the argument is also weakened further.

When companies like HGMI pays a new 3/M grad only a month or 2 out of A&M $850/day (fact, not speculation or sea story), I consider them to be nothing less than fools. And the same goes for anybody else who would do the same, including drillers who will hire brand new mates and engineers out of academies for a $100k, when they could have gotten them for probably $75-80K.

I don’t work union right now, but when I feel the need to contemplate the possibility of MMP wages getting cut anywhere near 22%, then I’ll have something to worry about.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Johhny.

If you did the math out on a GOM mariner making 800,900, whatever the fuck a day, equal time, suddenly got furloughed/fired/laid off and loses 2 months pay, hypothetically, before they find an AB job on a tug for 350 a day (hypothetical, since they don’t have any boathandling experience), how much more are they really making than a non-GOM mariner, union or not? They may break even at the end of the year, especially whatever un-vested 401k they lost, medical insurance paid out of pocket, the list goes on. This is all about close-minded mariners looking at just the day rate in the present and nothing else. Losing one’s job sucks, and as someone who HAS indeed been laid off many years ago, I feel your pain.

I’ve thrown total compensation numbers out there, but nobody else was willing to share theirs. Once again to not let the cat out of the bag I maybe union, maybe not, maybe management at a union company, maybe I don’t work on boats and flip burgers and troll gcaptain but I don’t feel unions are the way to go in all situations but mariners need to be able to organize if they so choose without consequences just as they do at walmart and jeaux-boss’s boat rental.


#340

Another part of what is going on now is reorganizing schedules so that all who are retained go even time.

Just spoke with a former shipmate who took a 12% cut, and has worked less than a third of last 4 months. He’s been working even time for years and is getting screwed. I bet this is going on at every OSV company.

Good thing Jeaux Baas’s open door policy is working so well.