Navy OOD (Officer of the Deck) qualifications and experience


#61

Not obsessed, just curious, since you mentioned that it was a general opinion;
“Because they are seen, by naval officers, as an adversary and considered by them and others to be the bottom of the barrel.”

I know that if you have never had any dealings with people of a different race and nationality it is easy to form opinions that are not based on facts and own experience.I don’t mean meeting someone in a bar somewhere, but actually working with them.

Since there are few foreigners on American ships and few Americans on foreign ships, it doesn’t appear to be much opportunities for most American seafarers to actually work with anybody else, thus not really be able to form any opinion on their abilities.

Of course, when it comes to the US Navy, this is even more so, although they are stationed at what amounts to a small piece of Americana in foreign lands. They appears to interact with the locals with an attitude of superiority. (At least that is my experience from seeing them on liberty in foreign ports)


#62

You know “Det er typisk Norsk å være god” (It is typically Norwegian to be good).


#63

Sorry, I wasn’t being critical of the USMM officers who have chosen that career, or the working conditions and schedules under which they work.

I was responding to the various posts that suggest putting (junior) USMM mates on as OICNW, with a senior mate as the CWO-4 “Master”, or Subject Matter Expert, or whatever title. Couple this with one poster who made it clear he would only consider it on a time on-time off basis, and my comment resulted.

The USN will find many “solutions” to the problems behind these collisions and groundings. Some may actually be viable, and some may actually be funded and implemented. I just don’t think that USMM mates on USN ships, at USMM pay scales, under USMM work rotations, will be one of the solutions on the list.

There are lots of things wrong in the SWO community, but it is still comprised of men and women who, when assigned to ships, work long, hard hours for half the compensation that would be required for the USMM mate as OICNW solution.

Again, not passing judgement on the premise, just the unfundable cost. Of course, we all realize that repairing one ship damaged by collision could fund a fleet-wide implementation of this program for quite some time, but we all know that is not the way the budget works.

And I have not forgotten the priceless value of the lives lost in these avoidable incidents.


#64

It already is…


#65

Not as a fleet-wide solution. It is in place on a few select vessels.


#66

In fact, hybrid crewing was talked about as a solution for many USN vessels a little while back.

Also keep in mind all those supply and support vessels use to be navy operated.


#67

Doesnt have to be merchant mates with merchant salaries. Just make some warrant officer billets for people who spend their career navigating Navy warships and not shore gigs. There only needs to be 4 per ship. 3 watchstander CWO’s and a CWO4 who leads them and comes up in tight situations to steady frayed nerves. Some enterprising enlisted sailors will certainly sign up. Pull interested candidates from BM, QM, or OS communities and let em sail. Give em a few years of solid experience and they will be able to square away any bridge watch team of neophyte officers and enlisted. In time they will become trusted resources to the CO/XO and it could become a coveted position due to the lack of paperwork and managerial bull crap. A small cadre of experts could produce outsize results and not kill the Navy budget.


#68

I’ve known a few friends who have sailed foreign flag and most have had rather good things to say. I also sign on plenty of U.S. naturalized Filipinos, Hondurans, Jamaicans, Guyanans, Indonesians, Nigerians, Senegalese, Egyptians, Europeans, Koreans, etc. I’m still waiting for a sailor of Chinese dissent but I’m sure I’ll handle it like it all the others and form my own opinion of their abilities as a seaman and manage it from there.

It is presumptuous and dare I say insulting for you to insinuate anything different. Though it is currrently Donald Trump’s America it is still a melting pot and the crews of the U.S. Merchant Marine are no different.


#72

I bet I will surprise nearly EVERYBODY here, but the military already does these. There exist Warrant Officer Deck Officers on military vessels, and their training and experience is even accepted by the USCG for a masters license (I think 1600T oceans, but not sure). I only learned of this because I ran into an instructor that taught navigation at their school. The program has all the ship drivers as a skilled set that they learn and only do. It seems to work well…

…and the surprise? It is the ARMY that does this: Marine Deck Officer (880A) http://www.transportation.army.mil/maritime/mtd.html

And want to know some real irony? The Army started training the Navy how to drive boats…because apparently the army is better at it.

Article on it: http://www.militarynews.com/peninsula-warrior/community/army-marine-deck-warrant-officers-learn-to-sail-by-streetlights/article_192f5df5-2982-55c0-963b-6bea29471442.html

Celestial navigation is a small part of the course which encompasses what Marine warrant officers are expected to know. The course is 33 weeks long. Some of the tasks they learn are basic piloting, electronic navigation, tug and towing, ship handling, and of course, celestial navigation.

Many of those courses are approved by the Coast Guard, according to Lipson. For those reasons, Lispon believes this course is one of the longest and hardest courses in the Army.


#73

I thought most of the people here are familiar with Army watercraft operators. We’ve talked about them a few times in the past.


#74

I’m very familiar with Army watercraft officers and crew and their training and vessels. I think most on these forums are. We did neglect to bring them up as a very salient point in regards to the discussion, so I appreciate you bringing it up.


#79

No one says it’s anything to be ashamed of. If they want to recognize their ancestry that’s great, but they’re still not a hyphenated American. They’re an American with whatever ancestry.


#80

Its a little more complicated than that.


#81

I’m a purist. It’s only more complicated to SJWs.


#82

SJW? Single Jewish Women?


#83

Some, even if they were proud of their heritage, saw it as a way to calm people’s nerves during wartime, such as German-Americans during certain times of war.

Although unfortunately that did not work out well for others. It’s much better to be a Japanese-American now than in the fourties when they were treated in an illegal and despicable manner.


#84

With the growing scope of oppressive political correctness in this country, heritage isn’t even restricted to ethnicity or national origin, now we have “muslim-americans.”


#85

I went to high school near the Army’s transportation school at Fort Eustis. The syllabus for Warrant Officer Watercraft Operators has always been intentionally modeled on the Merchant Marine. It is the longest in time to qualify of the Army’s Warrant Officer specialty schools, taking longer to qualify than to be an aviator.


#90

Excellent commentary John

http://gcaptain.com/kings-orders-u-s-navy-avoid-excess-detail-orders-instructions/


#91

As usual you have twisted this topic into some abhorrently mottled mess of whatever your hatred for the U.S. apparently is. Yes, we got it. You have lived in Singapore and Norway. You still apparently harbor some heavy duty hostility for the U.S. for some reason. Why?