WTF! why kill the KP thread?

You mean John is not sharing all that money with you???

Joking, sorry to alarm you.

Now why would I do something like that :wink:

am I the only miserable unwashed one here who can’t tolerate KP? why on earth does no one want to say anything about that puff PR piece they put out? surely they should not be allowed to simply get away with that…

come on lads…there is a battle to still to fight or does everyone just not give a shit?

[QUOTE=c.captain;139631]am I the only miserable unwashed one here who can’t tolerate KP? why on earth does no one want to say anything about that puff PR piece they put out? surely they should not be allowed to simply get away with that…

come on lads…there is a battle to still to fight or does everyone just not give a shit?[/QUOTE]

some fucking army I have fighting with me…

if I were Patton, I’d slap you all for cowardice!

What do you want C.Capt? It’s a press release for crimminy’s sake.

Course it’s going to sing praise to their fantasy of greatness. That’s what Press Releases are for.

Heck, even the poorest rated community college in the country will have parents and local dignitaries stand up and cheer during ceremonial events.

I think your army decided to save it’s ammo for bigger battles.

[QUOTE=Jetryder223;139659]What do you want C.Capt? It’s a press release for crimminy’s sake.

Course it’s going to sing praise to their fantasy of greatness. That’s what Press Releases are for.[/QUOTE]

but the fools who run the place read this forum and need to know how utterly ridiculous and obtuse they all are there.

Just the statements about the vessel and it’s value as a maritime training tool are so overstated to be laughable on its face!

Propelled by two combined 2,900 horsepower diesel engines, the 176-foot long, newly-christened Kings Pointer has a 6,000 mile range and a maximum speed of 15 knots. The ship’s controllable pitch propellers and auxiliary water jet thruster, combined with modern joy-stick dynamic positioning capability provide midshipmen a highly maneuverable training platform. The vessel has a 7,500 pound deck crane, which is an ideal tool for providing a basic understanding of modern cargo operations. It also has a fast rescue boat, which can provide midshipman critical experience in general launch operations. In addition, the vessel’s double towing winch, substantial towing H bitts, and a massive towing fairlead add significant new towing training capabilities to the Academy’s portfolio.

Hey you rubes at KP…do you have any idea at all of what you claim here and how it is perceived by professional mariners?

//youtu.be/cyLdtG7KZvw

I can tell you that the Dude is upset…this loonacy cannot stand…MAN!

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In all honesty, KPers come out with more practical training then most state guys SIMPLY DUE TO THE FACT THEY SAIL ALL THEIR TRAINING DAYS ON COMMERCIALS SHIPS. They hardly use that boat. If anything, state academies should be doing the same thing (though i’ve heard the arguments on the feasibility of this)… On top of that, they are more obligated to sail on unlimited tonnage vessels and work in the industry then state guys (noticed I said more, yes it still has problems). You want to talk about expense, talk about the 6 huge state academy training vessels that millions get spent on each year. I never see that brought up. That coupled with the the funding to these state academies has to be more on a per school basis then KP ever gets. I’ve heard all the arguments every which way on here. And yes, this is a press release and it’s going to sound dumb.

Agreed on the press release. Also, some people can get worked up over nothing. They tend to get a little bombastic.[QUOTE=Jetryder223;139659]What do you want C.Capt? It’s a press release for crimminy’s sake.

Course it’s going to sing praise to their fantasy of greatness. That’s what Press Releases are for.

Heck, even the poorest rated community college in the country will have parents and local dignitaries stand up and cheer during ceremonial events.

I think your army decided to save it’s ammo for bigger battles.[/QUOTE]

Granted there’s not really a need for it but the AEs from SUNY get a steam endorsement. And a tin of practical experience you don’t get in modern push button Eng Rooms.

The cost for the ship is huge and it’d be better if there were more cadet shipping opprotunities, but some major expenses like Bunkers and Wharfage for the TSES are often donated for cruise by either companies or host ports.

[QUOTE=Lone_Star;139677]\You want to talk about expense, talk about the 6 huge state academy training vessels that millions get spent on each year. I never see that brought up.[/QUOTE]

been brought up by me plenty of times before and the cost to the taxpayers of the schoolships is a small fraction of the cost of a Kings Point. The State schools graduate at least 8 fold more mariners than KP per anum. More likely ten times the number of new merchant mariners all of whom are the same defense assets as our grandiose and glorious KP bunch.

State Maritime academies produce the same product for a quarter of the cost of a single KP grad and the cost to the taxpayer is likely only 5% per mariner than what a single KPee’r costs you and I. Hard numbers to argue against.

Hmm, I believe 8 fold is a stretch for sure, which makes me question some other numbers. KP always has the biggest graduating class. I could believe 6 fold. On top of that, I know many state grads who don’t sail, or do so very shortly. They have no obligation and are free to do what they want.

As a graduate of the SVO program at Maine maritime, who also do all of our training days commercially, I am in strong agreement that this is how all the schools should do it. That being said we have a KP mate on the boat right now that needs me to walk him through maintenance projects and doesn’t know which way faces the enemy with a needle gun. So much for the practical training. Then again it’s not that he’s from KP, he is just seemingly more interested in NS5 and signing his name on as much paperwork as possible.

[QUOTE=“Lone_Star”]In all honesty, KPers come out with more practical training then most state guys SIMPLY DUE TO THE FACT THEY SAIL ALL THEIR TRAINING DAYS ON COMMERCIALS SHIPS. They hardly use that boat. If anything, state academies should be doing the same thing (though i’ve heard the arguments on the feasibility of this)… On top of that, they are more obligated to sail on unlimited tonnage vessels and work in the industry then state guys (noticed I said more, yes it still has problems). You want to talk about expense, talk about the 6 huge state academy training vessels that millions get spent on each year. I never see that brought up. That coupled with the the funding to these state academies has to be more on a per school basis then KP ever gets. I’ve heard all the arguments every which way on here. And yes, this is a press release and it’s going to sound dumb.[/

Some people defy the word practical if you really want to base it of an extra 120 days of sea time that really doesn’t make or break a real mariner. Ambition and drive will make someone go far in this industry not which boat they played shoe buffer on.

True, but we’re in the nitpicking business on here.

[QUOTE=LI_Domer;139679]Granted there’s not really a need for it but the AEs from SUNY get a steam endorsement. And a tin of practical experience you don’t get in modern push button Eng Rooms…[/QUOTE]

Notwithstanding that cadets at all the academies get a steam endorsement, how does that experience relate to working in a “modern” engine room?

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[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;139591]They are under the same Dept., DHS. Both USCG and USMMA are DOT, not DOD.[/QUOTE]

They have not been in the same department since 2002. USCG is DHS, MARAD is DOT. DOT is not part of DHS.

[QUOTE=Lone_Star;139677]In all honesty, KPers come out with more practical training then most state guys SIMPLY DUE TO THE FACT THEY SAIL ALL THEIR TRAINING DAYS ON COMMERCIALS SHIPS. They hardly use that boat. If anything, state academies should be doing the same thing (though i’ve heard the arguments on the feasibility of this)… On top of that, they are more obligated to sail on unlimited tonnage vessels and work in the industry then state guys (noticed I said more, yes it still has problems). You want to talk about expense, talk about the 6 huge state academy training vessels that millions get spent on each year. I never see that brought up. That coupled with the the funding to these state academies has to be more on a per school basis then KP ever gets. I’ve heard all the arguments every which way on here. And yes, this is a press release and it’s going to sound dumb.[/QUOTE]

It is impossible for all, or most, of the students at state schools to do all, or most, of their training on commercial vessels. There are simply not enough US flag ships to accommodate them.

They are “obligated” to work on unlimited tonnage vessels because they get free tuition, free room, free board, and a ton of other taxpayer funded things. The kids at the state schools pay for all that. The total cost per year for a license student at SUNY Maritime runs about $22,000+ per year. At Kings Point the cost is closer to $1000.

While I cannot talk about other schools, SUNY Maritime has a total budget of about $34 Million. There are approximately 1800 students. The KP budget is about $81 Million. They have about 1000 students. That is about $80,000 per student per year versus SUNY Maritime’s $19,000 per student per year. They spend 4 times what SUNY Maritime spends on each student. I’m guessing that the other state school’s budgets are far closer to SUNY Maritime’s than Kings Point.

The 2014 MARAD budget shows TOTAL aid to all state maritime schools to be $17 Million. The spend almost 4 and on half more on KP than on the other schools combined.

King Point is a VERY expensive operation and very inefficient in spending.

80 million huh? That’s odd. Their 2014 financial report states 24 million.

Learned something new; I thought only SUNY AEs got the steam endorsement since TSES has a steam plant. Maybe my perspective is wrong since I'm not an Engineer but, I still think that learning steam and working on 60 year old, rusted to death equipment makes for a versatile and humbled engineer. Rather then doing your cadet cruises in a perfectly clean engine room and only have to turn in bunch of tracings and your sea project.

Informative presentation of comparative costs.

While it is true that there are not many traditional unlimited tonnage US Flag ships left, there are enough opportunities for cadets to train on US flag ships, including a growing number of larger OSVs and construction vessels. There are plenty of opportunities for cadets to sail on bigger, more modern, and much better foreign vessels. Most of the cadets are going to end up working on foreign flag drill rigs or drillships anyway.

I do not see any need for taxpayers to be wasting money on old, obsolete training ships that are only underway a few days a year. I do not see much educational value in it either.