I think it goes directly to the heart of the issue. The refusal of the Navy to release information about its role in a civilian accident in peacetime in the middle of a maritime shipping “highway” is illustrated by the attitude and beliefs posted here by some of the Navy supporters. The culture of the organization is at the root of the thread title and more than likely contributed to the cause of the collision.
The posts may be a bit boring because they are so predictable (and mostly irrelevant) but the thought behind them is a good illustration of the culture which produced them.
Because that isn’t what you’re saying dude; at least that’s not how you’re expressing it. I’m not keeping a log, but you keep calling your Naval shipmates incompetent, we don’t know what we’re doing, etc.
Contrast that with my posts. I treat people with respect, I respect the US Merchant Marine, I acknowledge that they have to get a lot of training to do what they do as well. The US Merchant Marine has been involved in accidents too but they aren’t incompetent as a result. Neither is the Navy.
Case in point, shipmate. Case in point. You just stated that Navy men and women are not professionals. You were in the Navy. You have the silver dolphins of a submariner, which means you were in an elite unit in the Navy.
Are you a professional?
I think you’re a professional. So there’s at least one professional in the Navy. Indeed, most of us are professionals. The Navy is a professional organization. Being a professional doesn’t mean you never make mistakes.
Indeed, sir, this was my intent. You’re right, technically I should have said “let more steam out of the steam generator”.
Well sir, according to most people on this web site, I guess that means both of us are incompetent, since the Navy is composed of incompetent people and is a horrible organization and a failure, and we’re Navy veterans so therefore we are incompetent and failures. lol.
Also thanks for your service sir btw. I was STS3(SS) on USS Florida SSBN-728 and USS Asheville SSN-758. Served 1999 to 2003. Went to Basic Enlisted Submarine School and Sonar “A” School in Groton CT…I guess technically it is called New London Naval Submarine Base, although New London is actually across the river and is where the Puddle Pirates have their Academy.
As far as I can tell, both institutions (if you can call the merchants an institution) are extremely conservative in hanging on to traditional practices long after their usefulness has diminished.
I don’t think that the gCaptain forums are “anti-Navy”, especially since many of the posters were themselves in the Navy, but there are a few who seem to have a bone to pick with USN commanding officers in particular, and with the apparent command structure on a typical USN warship bridge. Don’t take criticism of the Navy as if it were a personal insult.
Yeah, agree, don’t misunderstand my position. I’m not attempting to excuse the Crystal from responsibility. The separate question still remains, “How did the Fitzgerald allow itself to be struck by a cargo ship?”
I would not. I don’t have a dog in this fight. The largest boat I’ve ever driven can be pulled behind a pickup truck. I do think that both external criticism and internal self-criticism are vital to the Navy’s future.
Fine, be dismissive. Being in a populated and unrestricted area exposes aircraft/vessels to passive observers. I don’t imagine that everyone in LA or San Diego cares,but Nellis AFB is in Las Vegas, Nevada, not Area 51. The other bases that B-2’s operate from are also not secret or undisclosed. Nearby residents don’t need the flight plans to know that one has taken off, or arrived. By the same token, there are many people who can directly observe the comings and goings of USN vessels in addition to the indirect observations made possible by observing logistics operations and related stuff. Anyone who wants to know USN arrivals and departures can do so with good precision.
The pompousness and great expense of the Navy to save face in events of error is troubling.
I’m both AGT OICNW and OOD qualified, have stood watch on both and can say there is a lot of koolaid drinking on the grey side that needs to be stopped. It’s absolutely laughable in some instances, and leads to a henderance in professional development.
I could go on and on, from general ship maintenance, engineering, bridge teams, etc. Ever wonder why all the supply ships went to MSC? Ever wonder why they toyed with the idea of having civmars drive and steam naval ships while a navy contingent operated combat? Ever look at the USS Ponce? Makes you wonder, doesn’t it.
Correct. You can turn horizontal and vertical in order to better flood your gangway ( in dark ports ) or mooring ropes in case of watching someone climbing up ( African ports ) or just quickly swipe over areas where pirate skiffs are expected. In the cold war times before 1990 they had on cargo vessels removable shrouds with horizontal lamellas linked with small levers and a handle
in order to give morse code. But you know this probably.
I didn’t particularly wanted to get invovled in this discussion about spotlight/floodlight/signal lamp, since I don’t think it made much of a difference to the outcome whichever was used (Personally I would have gone for the Aldis lamp) Or how it was used, whether to morse “U”, 5 flashes, “highlighting”, or “waving” the light, it didn’t make one bit of difference to the outcome. They still collided.
But today I walked around on the wharf to take picture of the three Cruise ships visiting our small town today and couldn’t help to notice their spotlights (or is it flood lights) under the enclosed Bridge wings.
Here the “Costa Pacifica” (Sister ship of the Concordia):
Nothing to do with the floodlight/spotlight issue, but I couldn’t help to notice the Standard Compass on the “Arcadia”, sitting two decks above the bridge:
I was just wondering how the reflector to make it visible at the helm position would look??
(Or do they have new and sophisticated way of doing it??)
PS> Both the Costa and P&O are actually Carnival subsidiaries.
PPS> The third vessel, the “Monarch” (ex Monarch of the Seas) was berthed at a Container Terminal a bit outside town centre, so I did not get any picture of that one today, but she is a regular and will be back every 10 days or so throughout the summer.
On the Arcadia the search light was turned towards the stern. Maybe they have other functions as well? Like lighting up the wharf at night etc.? (Not that that is needed here at 62.5N Lat. in the summer)
BTW: The Disney Magic appears to have only one search ligh, placed on top of the “rotunda” that serves as a bridge:
Point is, if they had wanted to, they could’ve walked out to the bridge wing with a portable high powered search light or use their signal lamp. We are getting in to minutiae here.
