# Why deepwater is going to have a tough time to recover in the future **URL:** \ **Category:** Offshore\ **Created:** [November 25, 2015, 9:21am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/why-deepwater-is-going-to-have-a-tough-time-to-recover-in-the-future/15539 "2015-11-25T09:21:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![follow40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@follow40](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/follow40)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2015, 4:03pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/why-deepwater-is-going-to-have-a-tough-time-to-recover-in-the-future/15539/41 "2015-12-07T16:03:52Z")
Yeah on a lot of vessels you couldn’t cut deck jobs without breaching hours of rest regulations, so cuts in crew come from engine and catering departments where they can operate with the bare minimum crew, you only need 2 engineers to run a 24 hour operation, extra crew like electricians etc would get cut as well. ---
**Author:** ![cmakin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/48db29/32.png) [@cmakin](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/cmakin)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 5:21am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/why-deepwater-is-going-to-have-a-tough-time-to-recover-in-the-future/15539/42 "2015-12-08T05:21:14Z")
[QUOTE=DeckApe;174619] When the job is otherwise not very desirable it costs more to entice a person to do it. The captain of one boat likely spends six months away from his family. The manager of six boats spends every night and every weekend with his family and friends.[/QUOTE] Uh, not the superintendents I have worked with and still do. . . ---
**Author:** ![\_A465B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/e8c25b/32.png) [@\_A465B](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/_A465B)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 10:33pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/why-deepwater-is-going-to-have-a-tough-time-to-recover-in-the-future/15539/43 "2015-12-08T22:33:11Z")
[QUOTE=DeckApe;174619]… When the job is otherwise not very desirable it costs more to entice a person to do it. The captain of one boat likely spends six months away from his family. The manager of six boats spends every night and every weekend with his family and friends.[/QUOTE] I ain’t home, or even on the same continent. But then again, the captains and chief engineers do make a lot more than me, and yes, they have the responsibility and liability. My responsibility is to get them the resources they need and make sure they use them. There are many shore people that are deathly envious of US and European mariner wages, mention it often, always forgetting the experience, sacrifice, training and just plain hard, lonely work it took to get there and be there. I strongly support good living wages for all working people (like many, many here on gCaptain), and hovering somewhere near tadpole in a fast disappearing puddle, I do what I can to make it so. Sometimes it works. Out here eyepopping numbers of rigs are stacked and people are looking at one another wondering who is next to go. I’ve met wonderful young people who must, in their 30’s, turn to other industries, and their energy is lost to us. I feel very badly about that, since with good young people, we can move mountains. They are our future, and as an old coot, I’d like to see them working in our industry and grow. ---
**Author:** ![tugsailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@tugsailor](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tugsailor)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 4:30am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/why-deepwater-is-going-to-have-a-tough-time-to-recover-in-the-future/15539/44 "2015-12-09T04:30:37Z")
In response to other posts: It seems that the oil companies could cut costs by requiring fewer DPOs and/or allowing DPOs with a faster, cheaper, more certain, certification system (not the loses the paperwork, nitpicks trivia to death, takes forever Nautical Institute), or by allowing only two riggers on deck (these are just ABs or OSs that connect and disconnect lifts — not actual skilled riggers). Jeaux Bawss could find an endless supply of inexpensive OS/Wipers/riggers with a friendlier, cheaper, and more welcoming hiring process and paid travel. Jeaux Bawss could cut costs significantly with a modern online and skype based hiring process — that does not require people to drive to Louisiana to look for a job. They get the job, take the physical and drug test near where they live. When they travel, they have already been hired, it’s directly to company provided training or the boat, and it’s on Jeaux’s dime. Many companies in every industry do it exactly this way. It’s what the vast majority of workers expect. It’s not just the Gulf that pays less for Port Captains than actual Masters. Within the past year I have had several calls from recruiters about various Port Captain and operations jobs around the country that Pay less for 12 months, than I can make running a tugboat for six months. The old joke is that “a port captain is a former captain that did so much damage that the company could no longer afford to let him run a boat.” Now we also have a lot of academy grads with five minutes of experience as port captains. Most of these guys are glorified clerks that are not worth they are being paid. ---
**Author:** ![Jeaux\_Bawss](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/jeaux_bawss/32/95_2.png) [@Jeaux\_Bawss](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Jeaux_Bawss)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 7:41pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/why-deepwater-is-going-to-have-a-tough-time-to-recover-in-the-future/15539/45 "2015-12-09T19:41:45Z")
If people want the pleasure of working for me they can come to my offices. It’s easier to hire third party riggers so I don’t have to provide them with insurance or other benefits. Plus they are expendable and easily replaced. The shoreside operations staff is more important than the vessel crew. Someone has to make sure you people don’t mess everything up and follow my rules from my Bible the Safe Ops Manual. You people don’t understand how budgets work and everything that goes into paying your ridiculous day rates. The Operations Manager runs his vessels from his office or living room. He makes all the decisions because he knows how and what I want done. I just need you to do what your told and take the fall if it goes wrong. It’s a simple formula that’s been working for my company for generations. ---
**Author:** ![c.captain](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/c.captain/32/807_2.png) [@c.captain](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/c.captain)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 7:51pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/why-deepwater-is-going-to-have-a-tough-time-to-recover-in-the-future/15539/46 "2015-12-09T19:51:31Z")
[QUOTE=Jeaux Bawss;175011]If people want the pleasure of working for me they can come to my offices. It’s easier to hire third party riggers so I don’t have to provide them with insurance or other benefits. Plus they are expendable and easily replaced. The shoreside operations staff is more important than the vessel crew. Someone has to make sure you people don’t mess everything up and follow my rules from my Bible the Safe Ops Manual. You people don’t understand how budgets work and everything that goes into paying your ridiculous day rates. The Operations Manager runs his vessels from his office or living room. He makes all the decisions because he knows how and what I want done. I just need you to do what your told and take the fall if it goes wrong. It’s a simple formula that’s been working for my company for generations.[/QUOTE] if you were REALLY a Joe Boss, I’d tell you to EAT SHIT AND DIE…YOU MISERABLE SCUMBAG EXPLOITER of men’s labor! and if this were a just and fair world, the workers I’d lead would throw your bullet riddled body on a great burning pyre built out of your mountain of personal luxuries. But you are safe because GoM mariners are all such pathetic sheep and you get to sleep soundly surrounded by your wealth. . ---
**Author:** ![z-drive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c37758/32.png) [@z-drive](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/z-drive)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 11:07pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/why-deepwater-is-going-to-have-a-tough-time-to-recover-in-the-future/15539/47 "2015-12-09T23:07:20Z")
> [@"c.captain"](#): > > if you were REALLY a Joe Boss, I’d tell you to EAT SHIT AND DIE…YOU MISERABLE SCUMBAG EXPLOITER of men’s labor! and if this were a just and fair world, the workers I’d lead would throw your bullet riddled body on a great burning pyre built out of your mountain of personal luxuries. But you are safe because GoM mariners are all such pathetic sheep and you get to sleep soundly surrounded by your wealth. . temper, temper! ---
**Author:** ![powerabout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/43a26b/32.png) [@powerabout](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/powerabout)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 2:30am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/why-deepwater-is-going-to-have-a-tough-time-to-recover-in-the-future/15539/48 "2015-12-10T02:30:01Z")
Same carnege happening worldwide, Here in Singapore banks just took 40 osv’s off an operator ---
**Author:** ![coldduck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@coldduck](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/coldduck)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 3:42am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/why-deepwater-is-going-to-have-a-tough-time-to-recover-in-the-future/15539/49 "2015-12-10T03:42:26Z")
In a worldwide downturn like we are experiencing, what are the banks going to do with assets they seize? I doubt investors will be beating down the doors to take them off their hands. ---
**Author:** ![cmakin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/48db29/32.png) [@cmakin](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/cmakin)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 4:43am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/why-deepwater-is-going-to-have-a-tough-time-to-recover-in-the-future/15539/50 "2015-12-10T04:43:48Z")
[QUOTE=coldduck;175039]In a worldwide downturn like we are experiencing, what are the banks going to do with assets they seize? I doubt investors will be beating down the doors to take them off their hands.[/QUOTE] My guess is that the beaches at Alang will have a boom. . . . ---
**Author:** ![follow40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@follow40](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/follow40)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 7:34am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/why-deepwater-is-going-to-have-a-tough-time-to-recover-in-the-future/15539/51 "2015-12-10T07:34:30Z")
[QUOTE=Jeaux Bawss;175011]If people want the pleasure of working for me they can come to my offices. It’s easier to hire third party riggers so I don’t have to provide them with insurance or other benefits. Plus they are expendable and easily replaced. The shoreside operations staff is more important than the vessel crew. Someone has to make sure you people don’t mess everything up and follow my rules from my Bible the Safe Ops Manual. You people don’t understand how budgets work and everything that goes into paying your ridiculous day rates. The Operations Manager runs his vessels from his office or living room. He makes all the decisions because he knows how and what I want done. I just need you to do what your told and take the fall if it goes wrong. It’s a simple formula that’s been working for my company for generations.[/QUOTE] You have some valid points. In this day and age with instantaneous satellite communication on board vessels, Operations Managers are make all the big calls that captains would have done 30 years ago, they are basically doing the job of captain for numerous vessels from shore with the captains on board being their mouthpiece. ---
**Author:** ![z-drive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c37758/32.png) [@z-drive](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/z-drive)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 8:06am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/why-deepwater-is-going-to-have-a-tough-time-to-recover-in-the-future/15539/52 "2015-12-10T08:06:36Z")
There are still good port captains out there. Few and far between as tug sailor says but they do exist. That would factor into my equation of whether or not to work for a particular company. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/capt_phoenix/32/281_2.png) [@Capt\_Phoenix](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Capt_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 8:50am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/why-deepwater-is-going-to-have-a-tough-time-to-recover-in-the-future/15539/53 "2015-12-10T08:50:51Z")
[QUOTE=follow40;175053]You have some valid points. In this day and age with instantaneous satellite communication on board vessels, Operations Managers are make all the big calls that captains would have done 30 years ago, they are basically doing the job of captain for numerous vessels from shore with the captains on board being their mouthpiece.[/QUOTE] And their fall guy, which is why they deserve the big money. ---
**Author:** ![tugsailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@tugsailor](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tugsailor)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 8:59am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/why-deepwater-is-going-to-have-a-tough-time-to-recover-in-the-future/15539/54 "2015-12-10T08:59:47Z")
[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;175062]And their fall guy, which is why they deserve the big money.[/QUOTE] Of course Jeauxbawss is a mariner just pretending to be a real Jeaux Boss boatowner, but I find his posts very entertaining and occasionally informative. ---
**Author:** ![tugsailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@tugsailor](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tugsailor)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 9:13am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/why-deepwater-is-going-to-have-a-tough-time-to-recover-in-the-future/15539/55 "2015-12-10T09:13:33Z")
[QUOTE=Jeaux Bawss;175011]If people want the pleasure of working for me they can come to my offices. Of course you are not a boatowner, but nice post. I understand that Jeaux Boss only wants to hire people who are really desperate enough to come to his office in the bayou so that he can easily manipulate them and take advantage of them. While this may work fine for hiring shoal-stained, high school dropouts from wherever, or licensed mariner’s that are really really desperate. This is why the quality of your workforce is so low. This is why you need so many “managers” to babysit them. And this is why you must offer 50 percent higher pay than anywhere else in the country to find quality mariners that will put up with your crap. ---
**Author:** ![Heat\_Miser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Heat\_Miser](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Heat_Miser)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 12:08pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/why-deepwater-is-going-to-have-a-tough-time-to-recover-in-the-future/15539/56 "2015-12-10T12:08:36Z")
[QUOTE=tugsailor;175065][QUOTE=Jeaux Bawss;175011]If people want the pleasure of working for me they can come to my offices. Of course you are not a boatowner, but nice post. I understand that Jeaux Boss only wants to hire people who are really desperate enough to come to his office in the bayou so that he can easily manipulate them and take advantage of them. While this may work fine for hiring shoal-stained, high school dropouts from wherever, or licensed mariner’s that are really really desperate. This is why the quality of your workforce is so low. This is why you need so many “managers” to babysit them. And this is why you must offer 50 percent higher pay than anywhere else in the country to find quality mariners that will put up with your crap.[/QUOTE] You hit the nail squarely on the head, but with one exception: There’s no 50% pay premium anymore. Major pay cuts at all OSV operators, no travel reimbursements, no 401k match. Due to the massive excess capacity brought on by overly sanguine building programs, this industry segment won’t rebound quickly, even if oil prices recover. ---
**Author:** ![deven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@deven](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/deven)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 7:11pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/why-deepwater-is-going-to-have-a-tough-time-to-recover-in-the-future/15539/57 "2015-12-11T19:11:25Z")
Here is what will happen: Wages get cut. Big companies buy out little companies. Young people stop going into the industry. (The information age, and age of social media and hyper-connectivity makes this industry much less enticing.) Big companies refuse to increase wages to get more people interested in coming back or becoming a mariner. Instead, they lobby Congress to “do something”. Foreigners sail our waters. American Merchant Marine basically dies excepting the worst of the worst who couldn’t get a job anywhere else. ---
**Author:** ![Ea\_y\_Money](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@Ea\_y\_Money](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Ea_y_Money)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 11:17am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/why-deepwater-is-going-to-have-a-tough-time-to-recover-in-the-future/15539/58 "2015-12-12T11:17:05Z")
[QUOTE=deven;175186]Here is what will happen: Wages get cut. Big companies buy out little companies. Young people stop going into the industry. (The information age, and age of social media and hyper-connectivity makes this industry much less enticing.) Big companies refuse to increase wages to get more people interested in coming back or becoming a mariner. Instead, they lobby Congress to “do something”. Foreigners sail our waters. American Merchant Marine basically dies excepting the worst of the worst who couldn’t get a job anywhere else.[/QUOTE] So how will the academies survive? Must be a difficult marketing campaign right now and will be getting worse. At what point do they get stopped by not being able to place graduates in a non french fry related career? ---
**Author:** ![Steamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Steamer](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Steamer)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2015, 1:47am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/why-deepwater-is-going-to-have-a-tough-time-to-recover-in-the-future/15539/59 "2015-12-13T01:47:20Z")
[QUOTE=Ea$y Money;175261]So how will the academies survive? … At what point do they get stopped …?[/QUOTE] KP hasn’t had a reason to exist since 1945 but that doesn’t seem to have slowed the flow of taxpayer cash. ---
**Author:** ![tugsailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@tugsailor](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tugsailor)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2015, 2:58am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/why-deepwater-is-going-to-have-a-tough-time-to-recover-in-the-future/15539/60 "2015-12-13T02:58:59Z")
The state academies are state colleges. They will never close. The marine biology, environmental science , business and other programs will just get bigger. There will always be ge and for the engineers. Already, some of the schools produce only a couple dozen mates per year. [Previous page](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/why-deepwater-is-going-to-have-a-tough-time-to-recover-in-the-future/15539.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/why-deepwater-is-going-to-have-a-tough-time-to-recover-in-the-future/15539.md?page=4)