# Where did the money go MARAD? (TSP thread) **URL:** \ **Category:** Professional Mariner Forum\ **Created:** [December 2, 2022, 6:22pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/where-did-the-money-go-marad-tsp-thread/64754 "2022-12-02T18:22:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![New3M](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/new3m/32/394_2.png) [@New3M](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/New3M)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2022, 11:47pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/where-did-the-money-go-marad-tsp-thread/64754/21 "2022-12-06T23:47:58Z")
I don’t know about the tank coatings and what kind of shape it’s in. My understanding is that it was put into cold layup, so it would probably need some work. OSG owns ATC and the other 3 ships, and they have right of first refusal if that one were to come out of layup. ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 2:03pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/where-did-the-money-go-marad-tsp-thread/64754/22 "2022-12-07T14:03:10Z")
> [@Sailor51](#): > > Alaska Frontier ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/gcaptain_maritime_forum/original/3X/b/1/b140a066e13443d62ef3980e009616a22acd164d.jpeg) Looks like a standard Suezmax Crude oil tanker (except for the twin diesel-electric propulsion arrangement) [https://www.aktanker.com/alaska-class-vessels](https://www.aktanker.com/alaska-class-vessels) Tank arrangement (and presumably cargo pump and piping arrangement) also looks standard ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/gcaptain_maritime_forum/original/3X/3/a/3afadb27a67a794df5f42c6d8f5d2af4e1c5452b.png) I’m not a “tankerman” but I don’t belive this one is able to handle multiple grades of cargo simultaneously per today’s cargo arrangement,(??) Would probably require major alterations to handle everything from Avgas to HFO without mixing Besides, Alaska Frontier has been idle for an extensive period: > **[Alaskan frontier crude tanker to retire](https://www.energyvoice.com/oilandgas/138796/alaskan-frontier-crude-tanker-retire/)** > > The Alaskan Frontier, a Suezmax tanker typically used to transport Alaskan North Slope crude to West Coast refineries, is scheduled to retire, according Arrived Brunei Bay layup anchorage: 2018-06-10 10:19 LT (UTC +8) ---
**Author:** ![johnny.dollar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f8ce5/32.png) [@johnny.dollar](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/johnny.dollar)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 4:16pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/where-did-the-money-go-marad-tsp-thread/64754/23 "2022-12-07T16:16:29Z")
Tanker spot rates are high now. OSG can’t figure out how to make money with the Alaska Frontier? And OSG just gave 3 ships back to the owners and I think Keystone is taking those ships over. Who builds a modern ship without an elevator, by the way. And who enjoys waking up at 5:30 and working 13 hours days? ---
**Author:** ![New3M](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/new3m/32/394_2.png) [@New3M](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/New3M)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 4:33pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/where-did-the-money-go-marad-tsp-thread/64754/24 "2022-12-07T16:33:50Z")
> [@johnny.dollar](#): > > OSG can’t figure out how to make money with the Alaska Frontier? OSG can’t figure out how to keep anybody on the payroll. You can forget breaking a ship out of 4 year cold layup. ---
**Author:** ![FloridaMan1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bb73d2/32.png) [@FloridaMan1](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/FloridaMan1)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 5:28pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/where-did-the-money-go-marad-tsp-thread/64754/25 "2022-12-07T17:28:06Z")
Maybe MARAD is holding off because they know none of these tanker companies can find people. But then again if I ran a tanker company I would want it out as soon as possible so I could snag as many billets as possible then just struggle to crew them until the industry changes. ---
**Author:** ![johnny.dollar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f8ce5/32.png) [@johnny.dollar](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/johnny.dollar)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 7:08pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/where-did-the-money-go-marad-tsp-thread/64754/26 "2022-12-07T19:08:54Z")
> [@New3M](#): > > OSG can’t figure out how to keep anybody on the payroll LOL, definitely true story there. Great shipmates, enjoyed time there, but sorry 13 hour days for less pay than working 8 hours elsewhere for 1 grade lower! And no wifi or elevator gets old. > [@FloridaMan1](#): > > Maybe MARAD is holding off because they know none of these tanker companies can find people. It’s very simple, no people cause they can’t open up the wallet and $$$$$. Actually they don’t even need to pay the mariners more total compensation, just get rid of the stupid “historical tanker hours”. Sorry, 13hours a day 0600-1930 no thanks. ---
**Author:** ![New3M](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/new3m/32/394_2.png) [@New3M](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/New3M)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 7:10pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/where-did-the-money-go-marad-tsp-thread/64754/27 "2022-12-07T19:10:10Z")
> [@johnny.dollar](#): > > no wifi or elevator Yea nearly all 600’ ships don’t have an elevator… It is a long way up from the lower engine room to C deck though. ---
**Author:** ![johnny.dollar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f8ce5/32.png) [@johnny.dollar](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/johnny.dollar)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 7:43pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/where-did-the-money-go-marad-tsp-thread/64754/28 "2022-12-07T19:43:13Z")
> [@New3M](#): > > Yea nearly all 600’ ships don’t have an elevator… > > It is a long way up from the lower engine room to C deck though. Do it multiple times a day! I don’t mind the exercise and I’m not lazy, but after a while even a young man’s knees hurt. RORO’s have elevators. It’s also just plane dangerous because heavy tools and materials now have to be hauled on steep ladderwells. ---
**Author:** ![DamnYankee](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/damnyankee/32/514_2.png) [@DamnYankee](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/DamnYankee)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 4:03am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/where-did-the-money-go-marad-tsp-thread/64754/29 "2022-12-08T04:03:12Z")
> [@johnny.dollar](#): > > Who builds a modern ship without an elevator Criminals Oh wait. I mean shipowners. Wait, wait, wait. I stand by my initial assertion. ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2022, 12:15pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/where-did-the-money-go-marad-tsp-thread/64754/30 "2022-12-09T12:15:11Z")
Do they have TSP in mind??: > **[OSG extends charters for six American Shipping tankers - Splash247](https://splash247.com/osg-extends-charters-for-six-american-shipping-tankers/)** > > Overseas Shipholding Group (OSG) has exercised options to extend bareboat charters with the Oslo-listed American Shipping Company (AMSC) for six Jones Act-compliant tankers. The charter extensions will add three-year terms commencing in December... ---
**Author:** ![cape\_cod\_night](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@cape\_cod\_night](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/cape_cod_night)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2022, 1:10pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/where-did-the-money-go-marad-tsp-thread/64754/31 "2022-12-09T13:10:41Z")
No, the continuation is for the jones act tankers. TSP tankers do not require to be jones act compliant. Different ships, cargo, and trade routes. ---
**Author:** ![New3M](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/new3m/32/394_2.png) [@New3M](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/New3M)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2022, 1:11pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/where-did-the-money-go-marad-tsp-thread/64754/32 "2022-12-09T13:11:09Z")
No. That’s the fleet the already operate under the Jones Act trade. ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2022, 1:19pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/where-did-the-money-go-marad-tsp-thread/64754/33 "2022-12-09T13:19:22Z")
> [@cape\_cod\_night](#): > > TSP tankers do not require to be jones act compliant. Likewise, JA compliant tankers doesn’t HAVE to be used only in the Jones Act trade. (Refr.JA compliant Container vessel used in trans-Pacific trade) ---
**Author:** ![New3M](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/new3m/32/394_2.png) [@New3M](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/New3M)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2022, 1:36pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/where-did-the-money-go-marad-tsp-thread/64754/34 "2022-12-09T13:36:00Z")
But there’s enough business for them to, so why would they enroll the expensive ships in the TSP when they can build for 1/3 the price overseas? ---
**Author:** ![FloridaMan1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bb73d2/32.png) [@FloridaMan1](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/FloridaMan1)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2022, 5:12pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/where-did-the-money-go-marad-tsp-thread/64754/35 "2022-12-09T17:12:49Z")
I guess the forum got some heads to turn because there was just a rule published the other day regarding enrollment. February 7th, 2023 is the deadline for applications. Also an interesting note is that vessel must operate in the Indo-Pacific region. I think this limits the profitability of the vessel operators. I hope additional vessels will be able to operate anywhere in the world. ---
**Author:** ![johnny.dollar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f8ce5/32.png) [@johnny.dollar](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/johnny.dollar)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2022, 6:59pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/where-did-the-money-go-marad-tsp-thread/64754/36 "2022-12-09T18:59:46Z")
From the link: " The Tampa-based OSG operates of a fleet of 20 Jones Act oil tankers and oil tug-barges. [Earlier this year](https://splash247.com/osg-drops-option-for-american-shipping-company-trio-as-it-shifts-priorities/) the company decided not to extend and return three MR2 product tankers to AMSC, the _Overseas New York, Overseas Los Angeles and Overseas Texas City_ , all now bareboat chartered to Keystone Shipping." Oops, guess that move wasn’t too smart OSG…you gave up 3 ships you had outfitted will and paid to maintain directly to your competitor. Good news is that Keystone is staffing union for mates and engineers. ---
**Author:** ![New3M](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/new3m/32/394_2.png) [@New3M](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/New3M)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2022, 8:20pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/where-did-the-money-go-marad-tsp-thread/64754/37 "2022-12-09T20:20:16Z")
Don’t worry they’re taking everything that isn’t bolted down off of them. ---
**Author:** ![johnny.dollar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f8ce5/32.png) [@johnny.dollar](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/johnny.dollar)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2022, 8:31pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/where-did-the-money-go-marad-tsp-thread/64754/38 "2022-12-09T20:31:31Z")
Actually, they are taking bolted down shit too (rumor has it per order of corporate). What use is a used vidmar after it’s been ripped out and likely damaged? Why the bad blood? It’s not like the new ship operator undercut and stole the ships away…they were returned to the owner. And now tanker spot day rates are super high. ---
**Author:** ![New3M](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/new3m/32/394_2.png) [@New3M](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/New3M)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2022, 8:32pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/where-did-the-money-go-marad-tsp-thread/64754/39 "2022-12-09T20:32:23Z")
Did you outfit one of them out of the yard at Aker? Those ships didn’t have a thing in them. Every Vidmar belongs to OSG. ---
**Author:** ![Sailor51](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sailor51](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Sailor51)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2022, 8:47pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/where-did-the-money-go-marad-tsp-thread/64754/40 "2022-12-09T20:47:07Z")
I find it unlikely that much of the ships’ engine equipment or tools will find their way to the OSG company man’s hands onshore. Both companies are MEBA engine crewed ships, and the engine department is just essentially switching boiler suits. The deck department might be vengeful for some reason, but I heard that every OSG deck officer was offered a job. If OSG wasn’t hurting for people so bad elsewhere in its fleet there is no doubt in my mind all those deck officers would have been laid off as fast as possible. [Previous page](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/where-did-the-money-go-marad-tsp-thread/64754.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/where-did-the-money-go-marad-tsp-thread/64754.md?page=3)