Unlimited engine upgrade to first 1 A/E


Anyone experience upgrading to First unlimited and being asked to retake ERM ( Engineroom Resource Management) ? NMC kicked back application saying that after 5 years it expires.

Got the National endorsement but need STCW for Int’l voyage.

Any thoughts or experiences would be huge help.

Thanks in advance.

That is not true as far as I know, you should push back.

The checklist on the NMC site lists ERM required unless previously met. The reference is 46 CFR 11.327 which states the requirement for “ERM if not completed at the operational level.” So if you already took it even for a lower level license then there’s no requirement to retake.

The two courses you would not have needed for the lower level licenses but would for the management level (1st/Chief) are Leadership and Managerial Skills and MEECE. And even then if you did previously take the full LMS within the last five years you can count if for this upgrade.

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Hi 'engr,

Thanks for the quick reply. I understand what you’re saying, I did some reading in CFR too and nothing saying that ERM expires after 5 years. AMO agrees too.

Yes, took LMS and MEECES recently.

Called back NMC to push back, but was only able to leave a voicemail for the evaluator. Up to one week lead time on call back. I guess it is what is for now. I’ll let you know how I make out.

Thanks again,
Safe travels.

@checkedwrongbox, that does sound odd. Just to clarify, did you take the ERM over 5 yrs ago, turn the cert into the NMC & now they say it expired? Or did you take ERM, DIDN’T turn it into the NMC & now they say it’s expired? I know some non-expiring certs can expire if you don’t turn them into the NMC within a certain timeframe.

Hi Sand_Pebble,

Yes, took ERM over 5 years ago, it was in 2015 for 2017 gap closing for junior officers, and submitted to NMC promptly after completing course.

NMC is now saying that I can not use that class to satisfy 46 CFR 11.327 ( ERM) because it is over 5 years old. I’d understand if it was advanced FF or BST for the 5 year timeline but nothing I’ve seen mentions ERM 5 year expiration.

Thanks for any and all help!

If you hold OICEW and submitted the ERM course either as gap-closing for OICEW or to renew OICEW, then you sjhould not have to take it again, as other have noted, it’s a one-time requirement. If you took it and submitted it in connection with OICEW, you should not need to submit it again.

You should ask NMC for a RECONSIDERATION (use that word) of their decision that you must meet ERM in order to upgrade Second Engineer Officer.

Hi All,

Thanks for replies & guidance. NMC called me back - only waited one day. Yes, ERM is once in a career. No expiration. So they’re going to generate the STCW portion of the First Assistant Engineer.

Thanks again or all the help.

Take Care and Safe Travels.


That being one of the clearest CFRs, did they offer any explanation for their screw-up?

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No, nothing. I didn’t really pry too much either was just happy that it was over with.

Thanks Again!