Understanding China

I’m certainly no China apologist or sympathizer but I believe it is appropriate to recognize the improvement in their behavior over these past decades. The China of not too long ago thought little about killing off their own people. In 1960 they starved and slaughtered many millions who expressed no ill will. In 1989 they killed many thousands who resisted peacefully. Now in 2019 they haven’t killed the people marching in the streets rioting for change.

I believe there are two reasons for this. First, China has gotten better at messaging (propaganda). They’ve been pointing to the riots as proof of foreign interference to bolster domestic support for a stronger China. Everyone does that. United States after 9/11, Iran against the Great Satan, Israel against the Arab states. It doesn’t matter if the threat is real, exaggerated or imagined. It’s an effective boogeyman.

The second reason is practical. Dead people on TV risk other countries using that as an excuse to isolate China and slow their growth. Chinese tanks rolling into Hong Kong and crushing bodies into the streets won’t win the hearts and wallets of foreign businesses and foreign consumers. Isolation and containment of China would certainly increase. That would cause growth to stall or reverse which would threaten the regime.

Whatever the reason, it’s good that China is acting in a more civilized way.

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I don’t know if you realise it, but your argument work both ways. The rest of the world looks at what the US do and say, not only China.

except the body count in China is higher and the Gov did it thats a huge difference.
Like Syria, Libya, Iraq, Yemen, cambodia, liberia, sudan etc killed plenty without outside.

Interesting you say that.
Here in the UK, Solicitors are not allowed to store certain personal data with US companies on account of US homeland security legislation that allows the US government to demand access to absolutely all data held by US companies… That includes customer personal data of UK individuals if held.

HK finally figure out that they need security laws to tackle the present unrest:

If you use a Huawei phone you are owned as when you build it you must give access to all data away to some 3rd party…
Dont forget US tech companies get run out of town in China for refusing to hand over data to the Chinese gov so clearly alibaba will hand over anything?
For the Chinese population the gov already has all their data
Jack Ma leaving soon…( so he stays alive)

and so it begins…

In fairness, based on the account I read, I support the cop’s action. If you approach and attack an armed cop, don’t be surprised if you get shot (i.e, Micheal Brown).

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If you threaten an Ozzie cop, expect to die, that can be verbal…

Cant remember any cop ever being charged and once in the 90’s they got the world record for killing more people in one week than any other Police force in the world…
all dead with one shot.
Us ozzies are proud of that.
They only carried revolvers then and as the Police Chief said, our guys only need one shot and we only train them to shoot to kill.

Their prefect record was undone the other day when a Policewomen wounded an assailant and a bystander. Thats never happened before, it should be one dead nobody else injured.
That must be like the first pilot to crash a Qantas plane?

One person set on fire and another shot and seriously wounded by police during the day and night of rioting in HK. Sever MTR stations trashed and fires started to make maximum mayhem. Here is a chronological report of the events for those who have and interest in facts:


This cannot go on much longer and, liked Carrie Lam have stated; it is wishful thinking that this will make any policy change, at least not in the direction the rioters claim they want, possible:

More likely it will change to a harder line and less freedoms for Hong Kong then have been enjoyed the last 3 decades. (Since 1984)

It will also result in a slowdown, if not permanent decline in the economy. Who wants to invest in a place where violent demonstrations break out every few years.
What is most amazing is that the Central Government has allowed this to go on this long and this far. It is a clear sign that the importance of HK to the Chinese economy.
As long as the people on the mainland is largely against the goings on and the unrest doesn’t spread, they leave it to the HK Gov. to sort out the mess.

If commerce in HK is disrupted there will be major implications for all countries and their economies. China is playing a dangerous game here. There is some mainland support for Hong Kong. My guess is China quickly quiets down and let things cool off.

cant believe Carrie Lam is still there

Is this what you are supporting, trashing their own campus and blocking streets to stop normal business for the majority of people in HK?:


It is VERY unlikely to succeed in making a more free, fair and democratic HK, On the contrary, it is like to hurt HK in the long run.
Will it win votes for Trump in 2020 to pretend that he care one iota about the welfare of the Hongkeys, or about democracy? Probably.

You now remind me of those crazy (often homeless) people that think everyone links back to Trump. Most in America are really not that interested in what goes on in China or HK. Trump wouldn’t be interested either, except he is trying to win a trade war. I doubt he cares much about implications for democracy.

I only recently tuned into some of the recent videos. It looks like bad stuff, but in the spirit of ombugge, why not just let HK sort it out. I’m sure they will. The US won’t be interfering beyond some political fop issuing sound bites. So it would be great if you could stop making your wacky pitches about what we are or are not supporting.

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No, I’m not crazy, not homeless and don’t think much of Trump. What is there to think about? You just need to follow the news stories from various sources to realise that he is not worth wasting time to think about.

I agree with this statement in full. We appear to agree on more point than you care to admit.

Including on this point. If nobody interfere this will blow over, but as long as somebody sees it as a point in their domestic policy it will just escalate. If the US politicians would stop playing policy with everything and stick to handling their domestic problems (God knows there are enough) this MAY go away. If that happen I’ll gladly stop making any pitches, wacky or not, what you are, or what are supporting.

Meanwhile the situation in HK is getting worse and foreign and mainland students are packing up to leave, if they can get out of the campuses that is:



You are a piece of work if you believe that the protests in HK are the fault of US policy. As for Trump, you are the one who keeps inserting your conjectures on his desires into this thread. From recent Washington Post editorial:

Trump’s indifference to the plight of Hong Kongers has long been clear. In August, he referred to the protests as “riots,” parroting Beijing’s line, and said the United States would not get involved. The State Department has muffled officials from speaking out against Beijing’s handling of the crisis.

So what more do you want? Please stop your ranting about how this is all our fault.


Now when will those politicians in Norway start listening to Bugge?

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There are several hundred nominations received by the Noble Committee every year.
Trump has been nominated as well, but he is hardly seen as a serious contender by anybody but himself and some in his “base”.

So one Deputy Member of Parliament becomes “those politicians” in your view?
Here is the Wikipage about Guri Melby, the one politician in question:


She is fairly clueless on HK affairs, although she spent a couple of days there recently. (Old China hand)

That Trump is indifferent to anything that doesn’t affect him or his business directly is no surprise.
It appears that others in his inner circles and among his supporters hasn’t got the message though:

Ted Cruz, a newly minted fan, is among the clueless US politician that wants to voice his opinion to gain support from even more clueless voters at home:


I know, I know, he has foreign experience. He was born in Canada and can see Mexico from his house.

Latest HK riot development:

Beijing continue it’s support for the HK Gov. but warns that the present situation threatens the “One country, two systems” agreement:

But the US Gov. will help by threatening to increase restrictions on trade from HK to make the situation worse:


China is not likely to grant HK more “freedom”, or get greatly affected by this move, but it may impress gullible voters in the US.
Or so they hope??

Maybe somebody should explain that China is ac sovereign country and HK is a part of it??

Man if ever there was a ringing endorsement for the Second Amendment, just look at that headline…flaming arrows and catapults?? What’s next? Will they take to the streets on horseback with their jousts?

The Holocaust is too long ago for most to remember what happens when a tyrannical government decides to impose its will against an unarmed populace…I think we’re about to get a reminder of what that looks like in Hong Kong.

By the way, not that this isn’t already underway with the concentration camps for the Uighur Muslims and the organ harvesting (!!!) of the Falun Gong…yet somehow the crack reporters at the South China Morning Post and Channel News Asia aren’t focused on that right now…it’s the “rioters” in HK that needs to be the focus…

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