# Understanding China **URL:** \ **Category:** Scuttlebutt\ **Created:** [May 25, 2017, 1:07pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005 "2017-05-25T13:07:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 8:33pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/546 "2018-07-16T20:33:58Z")
Perhaps you should reconsider travelling to any place foreign, knowing how dangerous it is. You may get knifed, bombed or run down by a crazy person in a van or something. You know there are millions of them dangerous migrants roaming the streets of Europe just waiting for a change to get you. ---
**Author:** ![tugsailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@tugsailor](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tugsailor)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 9:08pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/547 "2018-07-16T21:08:49Z")
Both of you guys are zealots for your extreme points of view. The truth lies in the middle. ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 10:08pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/548 "2018-07-16T22:08:06Z")
OK, back to China then: > **[US-China trade brawl threatens America's booming oil exports](https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/12/investing/oil-exports-trade-war-china/index.html)** > > China is America's second-biggest crude oil customer, making the burgeoning trade war a threat to soaring oil exports. Bad for the VLCC market as well, as US Crude oil export to China was regarded as the saviour. Oh well, they just have to hope for more oil from AG, especially Iran, flowing to China. Shorter distance, but at least it is something to fill the growing fleet with. Embargo you say!!! Who’s embargo? ---
**Author:** ![tugsailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@tugsailor](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tugsailor)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 10:21pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/549 "2018-07-16T22:21:23Z")
The US is a net oil importer. There is no need for oil exports. Crude oil Exports should not be allowed. The US will soon be the world’s largest LNG exporter, with or without China. ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 10:40pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/550 "2018-07-16T22:40:23Z")
Here is why US needs to import and export crude oil; NOT ALL REFINERIES ARE THE SAME: > [@](#): > > Many Gulf Coast and Midwest refineries were designed to process heavy oil from Canada, Venezuela and Mexico. To use more light crude domestically, refineries would need to pay less for their oil feedstock and would run in a suboptimal fashion, or require a significant investment in new infrastructure. Link: [https://powerincooperation.com/Issues.aspx?issue=ImportsandExports](https://powerincooperation.com/Issues.aspx?issue=ImportsandExports) PS\> There are a lot of gas available around the world, which can be developed for export as LNG as quick as US can build out their facilities. PPS\> China will find their supply somehow, even if they must pay more for it in the short term, or burn coal in worst case. ---
**Author:** ![powerabout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/43a26b/32.png) [@powerabout](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/powerabout)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2018, 11:16pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/551 "2018-07-16T23:16:30Z")
largest lng exporter? I read it might be in 3rd place behind Australia and Qatar by 2020, which is huge really ---
**Author:** ![Memel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ebca7d/32.png) [@Memel](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Memel)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2018, 3:09am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/552 "2018-07-17T03:09:46Z")
No problem comrade, I spent most of the last decade running in and out of Umm Qasir, Karachi, and other exciting fine sandbox ports, but thank you very much for your concern. ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 10:33am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/553 "2018-07-18T10:33:53Z")
Well, since you are used to travel to dangerous places like that you should have no problems in London, Paris or Berlin. Even Chicago, Detroit or Baltimore should feel safe after Umm Qasir and Karachi. You’ll be happy to know that Karachi has improved a lot though: > **[Karachi, the 6th most dangerous city in the world previously, has jumped to 50th...](https://en.dailypakistan.com.pk/headline/karachi-improves-ranking-on-international-crime-and-safety-index-2018/)** > > KARACHI - With collaborative efforts by security forces and civil administration, Karachi - once the sixth most dangerous city of the world - has been able to improve its ranking tremendously in three China is a safe place to visit for anybody, regardless of race, religion or nationality: > **[China crime rate – 2018](https://bonadvisor.com/china-crime-rate-2018/)** > > THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE HAS ASSESSED BEIJING AS BEING A LOW-THREAT LOCATION FOR POLITICAL VIOLENCE DIRECTED AT OR AFFECTING OFFICIAL U.S. GOVERNMENT INTERESTS. In general, China does not present major risks for tourists. Most of the people you... That is if you do not break the laws, or behave stupidly. ---
**Author:** ![Hawespiper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ebca7d/32.png) [@Hawespiper](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Hawespiper)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 2:21pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/554 "2018-07-18T14:21:43Z")
> [@ombugge](#): > > China is a safe place to visit for anybody, regardless of race, religion or nationality: But yet: > **[Half of China's millionaires 'plan to leave country within five years'](https://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1592975/47-cent-chinese-super-rich-want-leave-country-barclays-survey)** > > Around half of China's rich aim to move to another country within the next five years, according to a Barclays Wealth report. > **[Why many rich Chinese don’t live in China](https://www.economist.com/special-report/2018/05/17/why-many-rich-chinese-dont-live-in-china)** > > Wealthy Chinese increasingly choose to live abroad > **[Why China’s rich are leaving](https://fortune.com/2014/06/05/china-rich-immigration/)** > > Pollution, education and tainted food: A new survey explains why many of the country's wealthy are moving abroad. Very strange…it’s such at great utopia, yet those who are able to do so can’t wait to leave…how can that be? How can you taut China as the best place on Earth, can do no wrong, etc while knowing that this (as just ONE example) is going on: > **[China turns to tech to monitor, shame and rate citizens](https://www.cnet.com/news/privacy/china-turns-to-tech-to-monitor-shame-and-rate-citizens/)** > > The government is using surveillance cameras, facial recognition and smart glasses to score people on social behavior, which can lead to punishment. Serious question: do you really believe all the pro-China propaganda you spout here or are you trolling? If you’re not trolling, how in the world can you see what they are doing there to their own people and not see it as problematic? How in the world can you believe that they will be benign to other nations once they have the most capable military with how they treat their OWN people?? ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 4:56pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/555 "2018-07-18T16:56:34Z")
I quoted a website about the safety for visitors to China. The official US State Department advisory have much the same conclusion for US officials and tourists. (May have changed now, with the latest stunt by your illustrious leader) The Chinese Authorities are not as sure about the safety for their citizens visiting US: > **[China Issues Travel Warning Against US, Citing ‘Frequent’ Shootings,...](https://thediplomat.com/2018/07/china-issues-travel-warning-against-us-citing-frequent-shootings-robberies-and-thefts/)** > > Earlier, the United States warned its citizens to “exercise increased caution in China.” I have never said that China is some sort of heaven on earth, or a socialist utopia. It is neither heaven, or particularly socialistic. It is a developing country with a fast growing middle class and some Billionaires and Millionaires, as well as some low paid workers and subsistence farmers. But China is not this awful police state, where every foreigner is watched with argues eyes that is being presented in some of the US media. That may have been the case back in the days of the Cultural Revolution, but since the opening up in the late 1970’s I have never experienced anything like that anywhere I have been in China. I have walked around in many different towns and cities in China and the only bad experience I have had was to have my wallet pickpocketed in the bar of a hotel frequented by foreigner oil executives in Tianjin. I notice in the scmp article you quoted that most of the Chinese moving “overseas” do so to Hong Kong, which is actually part of China. USA is not on the list as most preferred destination: > [@](#): > > Around 30 per cent of Chinese respondents listed Hong Kong as their top destination, followed by Canada at 23 per cent. There are also people moving the other way: > **[Moving to China to Work and Live: Basic Considerations](https://www.transitionsabroad.com/listings/living/articles/moving-to-china-to-work-and-live.shtml)** > > In part 1 of a 2-part series on moving to China, Transitions Abroad describes the basic considerations necessary to work and live in the rich and complex country. This American Millionaire choose Singapore over Hong Kong when he moved his family to Asia, mainly because in Singapore the Chinese language used is Mandarin, while in Hong Kong it is Cantonese: > **[Expat Investor Jim Rogers on Why He Loves Singapore And Doesn’t Miss the U.S.](https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-272B-782)** > > International investor Jim Rogers moved his family to Singapore in 2007 so his daughters could learn Chinese and get to know Asia. In an interview, Mr. Rogers discussed why he loves his life in Singapore and doesn't miss anything about the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![Hawespiper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ebca7d/32.png) [@Hawespiper](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Hawespiper)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/556 "2018-07-18T21:15:37Z")
Thank you for that response. I’m really interested to hear your response to the second half of my post: > [@Hawespiper](#): > > how in the world can you see what they are doing there to their own people and not see it as problematic? How in the world can you believe that they will be benign to other nations once they have the most capable military with how they treat their OWN people?? ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 10:02pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/557 "2018-07-18T22:02:39Z")
I don’t see it as problematic that they bring hundreds of millions of people out of poverty in a relatively short period of time and continue to create a better environment for their citizens. If you have lived through the famine and deprivations of the past you would worry less about “freedom of speech” than putting rice on the table. The young generation that did not, nor experienced the excesses of the Cultural Revolution, does not know hardship, but many of them have travelled to western countries and do not see anything they envy. If you think that blocking access to western social media is a great hardship to the majority of Chinese people, think again. There are more than enough Chinese equivalent to choose from, with less hyped up BS and lies than in the western versions. Many Chinese are well educated, tech savvy and know their way around the restrictions, if there should be anything they want to learn. Talking to them you’ll find they are well informed of what goes on in the world outside China. The situation in the country side is still very different from in the major cities of course, with people living a basic life, with little interest in what goes on in other countries, or even the next valley. The same can be said about many parts of other countries too. (I could think of some, but modesty forbid me to mention specifics) I don’t know how many here have actually been in China and seen the development there over the last couple of decades, but it could be an eye opener for those who only read and see western media. (Especially the biased ones with an agenda to misinform) ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 10:30pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/558 "2018-07-18T22:30:06Z")
Today we had 5 cruise ships visiting little Aalesund simultaneously: Ship name: Arrival\_ Departure\_ From\_ To\_ | KONINGSDAM | 18.07.2018 | 08:00 | 18.07.2018 | 17:00 | Brønnøy | Flåm | | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | | MEIN SCHIFF 1 | 18.07.2018 | 08:00 | 18.07.2018 | 18:00 | Bergen | Geiranger | | Prinsendam | 18.07.2018 | 09:00 | 18.07.2018 | 23:00 | Amsterdam | Longyearbyen | | Star Breeze | 18.07.2018 | 13:00 | 18.07.2018 | 22:00 | Flåm | Svolvær | | AIDABELLA | 18.07.2018 | 14:00 | 18.07.2018 | 19:00 | Eidfjord (Hordaland) | Hellesylt | A large proportion of the passengers were Chinese. The fact is that the Chinese has become to biggest source of tourist$$$ in many segments of the tourist industry worldwide, incl. the cruise industry. They are also the biggest spenders on their travels. Here is an article about Chinese travel habits from The Telegraph a year ago: [https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/asia/china/how-chinese-tourists-travel-etiquette-and-money/](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/asia/china/how-chinese-tourists-travel-etiquette-and-money/) ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 10:41am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/559 "2018-07-19T10:41:55Z")
Chinese oil refiners are getting ready for the changing market situation for petroleum products when the US market, both for import and export changes due to the ongoing trade war. This opens new opportunities for local independent refiners who are able to ramp up their processing and supply capacity quickly: > **[Chinese refiner makes 60-ship tanker debut -](https://splash247.com/chinese-refiner-makes-60-ship-tanker-debut/)** > > China’s independent refiner Baota Petrochemical Group is making its debut into the tanker market, announcing plans to form a tanker fleet by bareboat chartering up to 60 tankers. Baota plans to bareboat charter the 60 product tankers from a number of... They don’t do things on the small in China. If you want to act quickly you have to use the large world market, not rely upon the small local market. ---
**Author:** ![Tellarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aeb1de/32.png) [@Tellarian](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Tellarian)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 12:14pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/560 "2018-07-19T12:14:23Z")
I expect there will be a bargain hunting package coming out of this, Zhejiang Ouhay is one of the best yards in China and they won’t let that expertise be lost. > **[Court rules to liquidate Zhejiang Ouhua Shipbuilding -](https://splash247.com/court-rules-to-liquidate-zhejiang-ouhua-shipbuilding/)** > > Zhoushan Intemediate People’s Court has officially ruled to liquidate Zhejiang Ouhua Shipbuilding after the shipyard applied for bankruptcy protection at the court in May. The court has asked creditors of the yard to report debt to the bankruptcy... ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 12:28pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/561 "2018-07-19T12:28:57Z")
Norwegian owned REC Silicon produces Silesia for solar panels at their production facilities, include two U.S. based silicon materials plants in Moses Lake, WA, and Butte, Montana. Due to the trade war their largest export market in China has dried up and 85 US workers have lost their jobs: > **[REC Silicon posts second quarter loss on China-U.S. solar trade war](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-rec-silicon-results/rec-silicon-posts-second-quarter-loss-on-china-u-s-solar-trade-war-idUSKBN1K91RT)** > > A U.S.-China trade dispute sent Norway's REC Silicon , a supplier to the so... So much for saving US jobs. REC group have a large solar panel plant in Singapore that import their Silesia from USA, but they have problem because their main market is in USA and affected by the tariffs imposed on imported Solar Panels there. A vicious circle created by the Trump policy of “America First”, which turns into “America alone”, So you say the easy solution is to produce the Solar Panels in USA? Well, it doesn’t work that way, since the US market for both Silesia and Solar Panels are too small to sustain the capacity of the existing US plants and the cost of producing Solar Panels in the US is too high for the export market. ---
**Author:** ![dbeierl](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/dbeierl/32/11833_2.png) [@dbeierl](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/dbeierl)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 12:38pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/562 "2018-07-19T12:38:15Z")
Usually your use of English words that have a family resemblance to the one you’re looking for is just mildly amusing; but this one is confusing. Silesia is a historical place now part of Poland. Were you trying to say silicon, polysilicon, or ??? ---
**Author:** ![Kraken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Kraken](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Kraken)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 5:01pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/563 "2018-07-19T17:01:58Z")
I think it’s Silane Gas he is talking about, or silicon which is called silisium in Norwegian. ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 9:01pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/564 "2018-07-19T21:01:04Z")
Maybe I should have used the term “polysilicium”, which is synonym with “polysilicon” and frequently shortened to “silicum” or “silicon”. The misspelling was probably because I was first reading this article in Norwegian: > **[Rec Silicon skriver ned verdier for 2,8 milliarder - skylder på handelskrig](https://sysla.no/gronn/rec-silicon-skriver-ned-verdier-28-milliarder-skylder-pa-handelskrig/?utm_campaign=2018_Sysla_Nyhetsbrev_Daglig_Torsdag_Uke29&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Eloqua&referer=eDM_2018_Sysla_Nyhetsbrev_Daglig_Torsdag_Uke29&xtor=EPR-40-%5B2018_Sysla_Nyhetsbrev_Daglig_Torsdag_Uke29%5D&utm_emailid=10374)** > > "Solkrigen" mellom USA og Kina har ført til massive oppsigelser og et elendig resultat, mener selskapet. It probably didn’t make much difference to the understanding of the post, but just in case I’ll apologise for this grave mistake. ---
**Author:** ![dbeierl](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/dbeierl/32/11833_2.png) [@dbeierl](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/dbeierl)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2018, 9:30pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/565 "2018-07-19T21:30:54Z")
In my reading “Silicium” as a name for silicon was superseded by “silicon” in 1817 – I’ve been around silicon in the electronics industry for many years and never heard it called silicium until you just did. My searching (duckduckgo) found no obvious connections with silesia. So I really was confused about what exactly you were speaking of. But calling a (likely autocorrect) wrong word a “grave mistake” is of course sarcasm, so I’ll take the completely unnecessary apology in the spirit in which it was given. 🙂 [Previous page](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005.md?page=27) [Next page](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005.md?page=29)