# Understanding China
**URL:** https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005
**Category:** Scuttlebutt
**Created:** [May 25, 2017, 1:07pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005 "2017-05-25T13:07:09Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 20
### Author:  [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2018, 4:23pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/383 "2018-05-27T16:23:36Z")
> [@tugsailor](#):
>
> Every country has the right to decide who it will, and will not, do business with.
>
> Castro decided to cozy up to the Soviet Union and threaten the US with Soviet missles. So the US choose not to do business that would prop up the Castro regime.
That was in 1962 and a lot has happened since then. (Bay of Pigs, Exploding cigars and the end of the Cold War among them)
> [@](#):
>
> The US subsequently took in millions of Cuban refugees fleeing Castro’s repressive communist dictatorship. Cubans have done very well in the US. Cubans in the US are the most strident supports of the embargo. Eventually, some of these Cuban-Americans will return to Cuba and rebuild it on the US model.
The majority of Cubans are left on Cuba. They have the right to choose who should govern them without being dictated by a foreign power.
I believe the Miami Cubans are free to return to Cuba, as long as they abide by the laws and don’t try to take over the Government by force. (Or are they banned from doing so as US citizens??)
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### Author:  [@Hawespiper](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Hawespiper)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2018, 3:54am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/384 "2018-05-28T03:54:15Z")
> [@ombugge](#):
>
> Yes it is a shame what has been done to Cuba by the 50 years of US embargo to make them change their political system and accept American domination again.
>
> I don’t know if the majority of Cubans would want the days of a US installed dictator under New York Mafia domination back again. They may not be rich, but at least they are not being oppressed by a foreign power.
Substitute Taiwan for Cuba and China for the US in this post and perhaps you’ll see your hypocrisy come to light.
Or is that just an example of the “good kind” of nationalism displayed by “the motherland”?
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### Author:  [@Hawespiper](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Hawespiper)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2018, 3:59am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/385 "2018-05-28T03:59:49Z")
Then there’s this:
> **[US sails warships past disputed islands in South China Sea](https://edition-m.cnn.com/2018/05/27/asia/south-china-sea-freedom-of-navigation-intl/index.html)**
>
> The United States has sailed two warships past a handful of disputed islands in the South China Sea for the first time, a move that drew the ire of Beijing.
So now sailing within international waters is cause for ‘raising China’s ire’?
The irony is that they they are protesting freedom of navigation patrols by saying that those ships shouldn’t be navigating in those (international) waters… Which kinda proves why these patrols are necessary.
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### Author:  [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2018, 1:37pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/386 "2018-05-28T13:37:41Z")
> [@Hawespiper](#):
>
> Substitute Taiwan for Cuba and China for the US in this post and perhaps you’ll see your hypocrisy come to light.
China has no trade embargo on Taiwan and the largest number of tourist visiting Taiwan are Chinese.
Tawinan companies are among the largest investors in China, with a lot of factories operating there.
As long as nobody upset the status quo, or disputes the “One China” policy that have been accepted by the UN and nearly all countries individually (USA incl.), there is no danger of any Chinese military action to reunify Taiwan with the mainland. China take a long view on things and sooner or later it will happen without a fight.
The hypocrisy is on the other side; Americans refusing to accept that Cuba has a different political system and philosophy from theirs.
Maintaining a trade embargo and travel ban since the incident in 1962, at the height of the cold war, is ludicrous. Cuba have not been a military threat to USA since that crisis was resolved,
The Bay of Pigs should be enough to teach the US that military might is not all it has been made out to be.
How much have this farce has cost both Cuba and the US over this long period is anybodies guess.
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### Author:  [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2018, 1:58pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/387 "2018-05-28T13:58:37Z")
Has any merchant ships been hindered in free passage through the South China Sea?
Or any naval ship for that matter, as long as they stay outside territorial waters??
The game played by American Navy vessels steaming passed the newly created islands with an oversized flag flying and the China protesting that they are in their waters is a fairly harmless pursuit.
Keep it at that level and nobody gets hurt.
Meanwhile the ASEAN countries with territorial claims in the South China Sea is working with China to establish a “Code of Conduct” and joint exploitation of the resources there.
The last thing that is needed is for USA to muddy the waters for their own agenda.
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### Author:  [@Hawespiper](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Hawespiper)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2018, 10:20pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/388 "2018-05-28T22:20:14Z")
> [@ombugge](#):
>
> the “One China” policy that have been accepted by…nearly all countries
umm…except Taiwan apparently.
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### Author:  [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2018, 12:36pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/389 "2018-05-29T12:36:08Z")
Taiwan is not recognized as a separate entity by any major country and most Taiwanese are not keen on upsetting status quo.
Here is some background from a reliable news source:
> **[What is the 'One China' policy?](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-38285354)**
>
> The BBC explains the "One China"' policy, a hugely sensitive diplomatic tightrope.
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### Author:  [@Hawespiper](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Hawespiper)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2018, 1:06pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/390 "2018-05-29T13:06:28Z")
> [@ombugge](#):
>
> most Taiwanese are not keen on upsetting status quo.
Right… Their ‘status quo’ is as a separate entity from China and they don’t want to upset that. If Taiwan wanted to rejoin the ‘motherland’, why don’t they vote to do just that? Why do they protest in the streets against doing just that? If Taiwan was in a hurry to rejoin, why would China need to “ramp up the pressure” on Taiwan?:
[https://edition-m.cnn.com/2018/05/28/asia/taiwan-china-explainer-intl/index.html](https://edition-m.cnn.com/2018/05/28/asia/taiwan-china-explainer-intl/index.html)
China is a bully in that region and is just going to keep pushing until they get pushed back. Of course no one there is capable of doing so on their own so it’ll come down to will the US step in to back whoever says enough is enough. Time will tell.
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### Author:  [@Tellarian](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Tellarian)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2018, 1:27pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/391 "2018-05-29T13:27:07Z")
With Taiwan it is only a matter of time, and the Chinese are good at waiting. Don’t forget that Taiwan also comprise the Kinmen Islands, literally on the coast of the mainland. The trade between Taiwan and China is massive, they are all Chinese and the inevitable will happen. The fact that the PRC haven’t taken the islands tells that it is a waiting game.
> **[Kinmen | Electricity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinmen#Electricity)**
>
> The Kinmen Power Company was founded in 1967 and gradually built five power plants in the county and in charge of providing power resources to all residents in Kinmen. It used to rely on light diesel oil which created high cost burden to its management. Since 1992, the ROC central government approved the power company to authorize Taiwan Power Company (Taipower) for five-year management. All of the power development projects were invested by Taipower and helped the region economic development. In...
Meanwhile China is out-stripping the world…
[https://www.hellenicshippingnews.com/china-is-now-producing-more-steel-than-the-rest-of-the-world-combined/](https://www.hellenicshippingnews.com/china-is-now-producing-more-steel-than-the-rest-of-the-world-combined/)
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### Author:  [@Hawespiper](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Hawespiper)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2018, 1:37pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/392 "2018-05-29T13:37:20Z")
> [@ombugge](#):
>
> as long as they stay outside territorial waters??
Ah there’s the rub… Territorial by who’s definition? China’s? Take a look at that 9 dash line… Do you not think Philippines, Vietnam, and Malaysia (at a minimum) are going to have a problem with that???
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### Author:  [@Tellarian](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Tellarian)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2018, 2:29pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/393 "2018-05-29T14:29:11Z")
And it is not just ore they are importing, China is changing so rapidly…
[http://www.producereport.com/article/swire-again-manage-cold-chain-logistics-zespri-china](http://www.producereport.com/article/swire-again-manage-cold-chain-logistics-zespri-china)
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### Author:  [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2018, 4:09pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/394 "2018-05-29T16:09:41Z")
Status quo is that there are some unfinished business left behind from the war between the Communists and the Nationalists in the 1940’s. Very few people living on Taiwan are old enough to remember, or even care about those long gone days. They are more occupied with making a good living, as are the people on the mainland. As the conditions on both sides get more equal there are less and less reason to keep them separate.
China is not going to attack Taiwan, unless they are provoked. They will just wait out the development. Nor is any sensible Taiwanese dumb enough to provoke the Chinese into anything as stupid as that.
The danger is that an outside force do so because they are buthurt that China is fast overtaking them on several fronts and threaten their hegemony in the Pacific. That is also the biggest worry among China’s neighbours in the region.
Domestic politic may also play a role. KMT is loosing support and tried to revive old ideas about “retaking power on the mainland”. (Last in 2014) It is not getting much traction among the Taiwan people today.
The “nine-dash line” problem will be settled between the partners in due course, without any interference from someone on the other side of the world that has little if any commercial interests in the area.
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### Author:  [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2018, 4:13pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/395 "2018-05-29T16:13:52Z")
The funny thing is that Kiwi Fruit originate from China, know as Chinese Gooseberries:
> **[How the Chinese Gooseberry Became the Kiwifruit](http://time.com/4662293/kiwifruit-chinese-gooseberry-new-zealand-history-fruit/)**
>
> It's an epic tale of marketing genius, amateur gardening, and sheer luck
PS\> China is open for business, allowing the old British Trading houses to re-establish themselves in China again.
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### Author:  [@Hawespiper](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Hawespiper)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2018, 8:23pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/396 "2018-05-29T20:23:37Z")
I’m sure the good people of Taiwan are very grateful that they have a Norwegian globalist here to tell what’s best for them. Although it would probably be easier to just tune in to China State TV…they’d hear the same propaganda.
Unfinished business…funny…Hitler had unfinished business from the “war to end all wars” too…I guess we should have let that problem be solved “between the partners in due course, without any interference from someone on the other side of the world that has little if any commercial interests in the area.”
But I guess that’s just more stuff from long ago that doesn’t matter today…do they even teach history in Norway?
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### Author:  [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2018, 8:31pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/397 "2018-05-29T20:31:54Z")
> [@Hawespiper](#):
>
> But I guess that’s just more stuff from long ago that doesn’t matter today…do they even teach history in Norway?
Yes I’m sure they still do. History, not propaganda and bravada.
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### Author:  [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2018, 8:46pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/398 "2018-05-29T20:46:41Z")
How cruel of China, they don’t want to take any more scrap from USA until it learn to clean the scrap of contaminants:
> **[US scrap industry struggles in wake of China ban](https://www.seanews.com.tr/us-scrap-industry-struggles-in-wake-of-china-ban/176085/)**
>
> THE US waste industry has been up in arms since China cracked down on imports of several categories of scrap goods, disrupting recycling markets across the US as exporters scramble to secure new markets for their products
Will the US overflow of contaminated scrap, or will they be able of offload it on some other underdeveloped country??
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### Author:  [@Hawespiper](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Hawespiper)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2018, 8:57pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/399 "2018-05-29T20:57:24Z")
yes, china is the beacon of environmentally conscientious methods and activities that we should all try to follow…
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### Author:  [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2018, 9:24pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/400 "2018-05-29T21:24:10Z")
It may be a surprise to you, but you are actually right for once. (Don’t make it a habit):
> **[China is rapidly developing its clean-energy technology](https://www.economist.com/special-report/2018/03/15/china-is-rapidly-developing-its-clean-energy-technology)**
>
> There is plenty of room for international co-operation on the environment
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### Author:  [@Hawespiper](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Hawespiper)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2018, 10:52pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/401 "2018-05-29T22:52:19Z")
no, it doesn’t surprise me…when it gets to the point that you can’t go outside without a SCBA, then yeah…it’s probably time to rapidly develop some clean energy technology.
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### Author:  [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2018, 3:26pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/understanding-china/45005/402 "2018-05-30T15:26:40Z")
Last weeks edition of The Economist have a Special Report on China that is very informative:
[https://www.economist.com/printedition/specialreports](https://www.economist.com/printedition/specialreports)
Here is a link to the first article in that report:
> **[Chinese travellers of all sorts have become ubiquitous](https://www.economist.com/special-report/2018/05/17/chinese-travellers-of-all-sorts-have-become-ubiquitous)**
>
> China’s decision to let its people travel abroad freely is changing the world. James Miles argues that it is changing China, too
For those who are interested in actual facts and insights on China it is worth the effort to buy a copy.
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