# U.S. Marines on Commercial Ships? **URL:** \ **Category:** Professional Mariner Forum\ **Created:** [August 4, 2023, 10:44pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/u-s-marines-on-commercial-ships/66792 "2023-08-04T22:44:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ChaplainDarrell](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/chaplaindarrell/32/41200_2.png) [@ChaplainDarrell](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ChaplainDarrell)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2023, 11:59am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/u-s-marines-on-commercial-ships/66792/44 "2023-08-09T11:59:01Z")
So it’s our fault? An outlaw nation being allowed to do business with the world should have their products seized to prevent them from using the profits to arm anti-Israeli rouge regions. ---
**Author:** ![ChaplainDarrell](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/chaplaindarrell/32/41200_2.png) [@ChaplainDarrell](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ChaplainDarrell)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2023, 12:00pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/u-s-marines-on-commercial-ships/66792/45 "2023-08-09T12:00:30Z")
So the Navy should not have had gun crews on civilian ships in WWII? ---
**Author:** ![ChaplainDarrell](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/chaplaindarrell/32/41200_2.png) [@ChaplainDarrell](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ChaplainDarrell)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2023, 12:01pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/u-s-marines-on-commercial-ships/66792/46 "2023-08-09T12:01:13Z")
Will the Marines be allowed to have ammo? (He said with a sneer) ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2023, 12:20pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/u-s-marines-on-commercial-ships/66792/47 "2023-08-09T12:20:32Z")
US seize tankers carrying Iranian oil as well: > **[Largest U.S. Seizure of Iranian Fuel from Four Tankers](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/largest-us-seizure-iranian-fuel-four-tankers)** > > The Justice Department today announced the successful disruption of a multimillion dollar fuel shipment by the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC), a designated foreign terrorist organization that was bound for Venezuela. These actions represent... PS\> The picture of M/T Bella appears to be a small bulker with the same name: ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/gcaptain_maritime_forum/original/3X/b/3/b387932bf2cd89f8464c245a15e354abd8ab6e63.jpeg) Probably this one: > **[BalticShipping.com](https://www.balticshipping.com/vessel/imo/8808264)** The “real” M/T Bella is probably this one: ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/gcaptain_maritime_forum/original/3X/4/8/482a19151e845254215ba88005c5911e1003d4aa.jpeg) > **[SKY RIDER, Chemical/Oil Products Tanker - Details and current position - IMO...](https://www.vesselfinder.com/vessels/details/9208124)** > > Vessel SKY RIDER (IMO: 9208124, MMSI: 511100837) is a Chemical/Oil Products Tanker built in 2000 and currently sailing under the flag of Palau. ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2023, 12:38pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/u-s-marines-on-commercial-ships/66792/48 "2023-08-09T12:38:37Z")
> [@ChaplainDarrell](#): > > An outlaw nation being allowed to do business with the world Who “outlawed” Iran? Iran is still a member of UN and has diplomatic relations with most countries. Now even with Saudi Arabia and other Gulf States: > **[The Impact of the Saudi-Iranian Rapprochement on Middle East Conflicts](https://www.crisisgroup.org/middle-east-north-africa/gulf-and-arabian-peninsula/iran-saudi-arabia/impact-saudi-iranian)** > > On 10 March, Saudi Arabia and Iran agreed to restore diplomatic relations as part of a Chinese-sponsored initiative that appears aimed at reducing tensions across the Middle East. Crisis Group experts offer a 360-degree view of the implications for... The sanctions imposed by US on Iranian oil export is unilateral, not a UN sanction. ---
**Author:** ![lm1883](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9dc877/32.png) [@lm1883](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/lm1883)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2023, 2:09pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/u-s-marines-on-commercial-ships/66792/49 "2023-08-09T14:09:21Z")
We seize their oil then they reciprocate and seize ours. It’s been going on for a couple years now. Pax Americana is officially dead and our policy makers are going to have to realize that they exist in a multipolar world where US Policy will be obeyed by those who subscribe to it and those who do not won’t The question becomes what do when our (western) policy directives go ignored? How much treasure do we spend chasing our tail? ---
**Author:** ![Seago](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/seago/32/209_2.png) [@Seago](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Seago)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2023, 2:18pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/u-s-marines-on-commercial-ships/66792/50 "2023-08-09T14:18:48Z")
Doctor Pillar certainly danced around the issue without addressing the fact that none of these tankers will be U.S. flag. Let the flag state acquire the security needed to protect their ships. Let’s develop a cogent energy policy for our country and stay out of the middle east. We need to stop kidding ourselves that we have any friends east of Suez and west of Singapore. ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2023, 2:51pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/u-s-marines-on-commercial-ships/66792/51 "2023-08-09T14:51:49Z")
It looks like they are not actually only going after VLCCs loaded with crude destined for the US. This one looks very much like a VLCC in ballast. She was heading into the Gulf when this picture was taken: ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/gcaptain_maritime_forum/original/3X/6/8/68d507a05b6a315582827b88f11027a45b4cdca0.jpeg) _STRAIT OF HORMUZ (May 3, 2023) A screenshot of a video showing fast-attack craft from Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps Navy swarming Panama-flagged oil tanker Niovi as it transits the Strait of Hormuz, May 3, 2023. U.S. Navy Photo_ Source: [Over 3,000 US Navy Sailors and Marines Arrive in Middle East Amid Iranian Threat to Shipping](https://gcaptain.com/over-3000-us-navy-sailors-and-marines-arrive-in-middle-east-amid-iranian-threat-to-shipping/?subscriber=true&goal=0_f50174ef03-7df995efa5-169863069&mc_cid=7df995efa5&mc_eid=4674ba0fbe) Could it be that this tanker had ACTUALLY hit a small boat in the Gulf of Oman, as the IRGC claimed (and the Owner denied)? PS\> Of the hundreds of ships passing through the Hormuz each day, how many has been taken into Iranian ports, (in retaliation for US “capturing” tankers loaded with Iranian crude?) or even harassed? ---
**Author:** ![tengineer1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@tengineer1](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tengineer1)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2023, 2:59pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/u-s-marines-on-commercial-ships/66792/52 "2023-08-09T14:59:30Z")
The entire argument is silly. People in the USA have no constitutionly guaranteed right to cheap gas. The US is supposed to be energy indepent now and already has some of cheapest gas in the developed world. Putting the US military on foreign flagged tankers is socialism for foreign billionaires. Unless of course the idea is to provoke another war and increase the gifts to the military industrial complex above the current 1 trillion a year. Former president Eisenhower warned of this insanity many years ago. ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2023, 3:04pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/u-s-marines-on-commercial-ships/66792/53 "2023-08-09T15:04:30Z")
I repeat my question: > [@ombugge](#): > > Has any foreign shipowner/manager, or even charterer, requested US armed guards on their ships? Has anybody any info to say they have, or is it just a “possible maybe”? ---
**Author:** ![Lee\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Lee\_Shore](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Lee_Shore)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2023, 3:07pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/u-s-marines-on-commercial-ships/66792/54 "2023-08-09T15:07:32Z")
> [@Seago](#): > > Doctor Pillar certainly danced around the issue without addressing the fact that none of these tankers will be U.S. flag. _“Further questions arise from the fact that the vessels to be protected are commercial operations associated with mostly non-U.S. crews, ship owners, and commodity traders.”_ ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2023, 3:21pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/u-s-marines-on-commercial-ships/66792/55 "2023-08-09T15:21:00Z")
The “line of command” will also be a question. Who decides when to start firing? The Master is in command, but will whoever is in charge of the armed guard respect that fact, or start shooting at whatever small boats in sight? ---
**Author:** ![Lee\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Lee\_Shore](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Lee_Shore)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2023, 3:47pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/u-s-marines-on-commercial-ships/66792/56 "2023-08-09T15:47:44Z")
Lots of questions to be answered but concrete steps are being taken: _“About 100 Marines have been training in Bahrain for specialized defensive teams that would travel briefly with commercial ships through and near the Strait of Hormuz”_ > **[US Marines already training to escort civilian tankers in bid to blunt...](https://www.legion.org/security/259741/us-marines-already-training-escort-civilian-tankers-bid-blunt-iranian-interference)** > > About 100 Marines have been training in Bahrain for specialized defensive teams that would travel briefly with commercial ships through and near the Strait of Hormuz. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/capt_phoenix/32/281_2.png) [@Capt\_Phoenix](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Capt_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2023, 5:37pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/u-s-marines-on-commercial-ships/66792/57 "2023-08-09T17:37:15Z")
> [@tengineer1](#): > > They can hire their own mercenaries. That wouldn’t do anything to do Iran from seizing the ships. These aren’t Somali pirates. ---
**Author:** ![steamce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed8c4c/32.png) [@steamce](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/steamce)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2023, 6:13pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/u-s-marines-on-commercial-ships/66792/58 "2023-08-09T18:13:58Z")
Back in the old days, Gulf War 1 and lots of times in between US flag ships would get armed military aboard when transiting the Suez Canal, Straits of Homuz and other areas in that part of the world. But this time its a little different, the Iranians doing the attacking are part of the Revolutionary Guard, kinda sorta the government but not. They think they can get away with attacking/harassing anybody they want. It is in everyone’s best interest for the country (USA) to enforce the rules. Its not like they can cut off our oil. We want these guys to be marginalized, make them think twice before going after ships in the Gulf. Make them less powerful so we can get them back to the table with a nuke deal. Big picture folks, think about the big picture. There is a reason for stuff, not just a knee jerk reaction. ---
**Author:** ![ChaplainDarrell](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/chaplaindarrell/32/41200_2.png) [@ChaplainDarrell](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ChaplainDarrell)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2023, 6:29pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/u-s-marines-on-commercial-ships/66792/59 "2023-08-09T18:29:56Z")
Not “outlawed” literally, an “outlaw nation” figuratively speaking. A nation wo rules based on a belief system that denigrates women and carries out harsh punishment for minor “offenses”. ---
**Author:** ![DamnYankee](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/damnyankee/32/514_2.png) [@DamnYankee](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/DamnYankee)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2023, 8:53pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/u-s-marines-on-commercial-ships/66792/60 "2023-08-09T20:53:22Z")
> [@steamce](#): > > Big picture folks, think about the big picture. Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool… Big picture, IMHO, U.S. Marines belong on U.S. ships. Not babysitting U.S. owned cargo. This is after all a mariners forum and more U.S. ships mean more jobs. ---
**Author:** ![lm1883](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9dc877/32.png) [@lm1883](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/lm1883)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2023, 9:07pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/u-s-marines-on-commercial-ships/66792/61 "2023-08-09T21:07:19Z")
A nobody here remember the Kuwaiti tanker scheme from the 80’s? If so could they explain how it worked? ---
**Author:** ![Lee\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Lee\_Shore](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Lee_Shore)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2023, 9:24pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/u-s-marines-on-commercial-ships/66792/62 "2023-08-09T21:24:46Z")
> [@steamce](#): > > It is in everyone’s best interest for the country (USA) to enforce the rules. Isn’t it also in everyone’s best interest to take precautions to protect their own shipping enterprises? Who elected the US sheriff of the world? Pax Americana is over. ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2023, 10:01pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/u-s-marines-on-commercial-ships/66792/63 "2023-08-09T22:01:48Z")
This MAY contain what you are looking for: [https://americandiplomacy.web.unc.edu/2018/04/the-limits-of-opposition/](https://americandiplomacy.web.unc.edu/2018/04/the-limits-of-opposition/) > [@](#): > > As the Duke Law Journal elaborated: “there is very little about the tanker that is American. Neither their true owners, their management, nor their crew are by majority United States citizens.”[36](http://www.unc.edu/depts/diplomat/item/2018/0406/ca_heller_limits.html#_edn36) The link between the U.S. and the tankers was “contrived” and some in Congress worked hard but failed to oppose the action legally.[37](http://www.unc.edu/depts/diplomat/item/2018/0406/ca_heller_limits.html#_edn37) [Previous page](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/u-s-marines-on-commercial-ships/66792.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/u-s-marines-on-commercial-ships/66792.md?page=4)