For the past year (plus) I have been working AHTS vessels and not using my unlimited Ch. Mate or my DP certs, but I figured I would take the opportunity to get my MOTV while I was taking a bit of a break from twelve hour DP watches.
My licence is up for renewal and I went through the entire TOAR thoroughly, and submitted it along with explanations of how, when, and where each was completed. There were two assessments however that were legitimately “Not Applicable” and I noted them as such with explanations:
Transition from inland rules to international - The vessels I am working on never enter waters where inland rules apply - they work mostly in S.E. Asia and never in the U.S.
Operate “Pushing Gear” - These are AHTS with no pushing gear.
They replied saying these “were not optional” and must be completed.
I was considering filing an appeal (including an essay type reply to each of the above demonstrating a knowledge of both pushing gear and what all is involved with an inland/intl transition) but didn’t want to risk a delay of my renewal.
Anyone have any experience with this particular issue?
They also made a comment that my service thus far “may be outside the scope of my present license”. It is a foreign flagged vessel working outside the US, and the endorsing flag state has no problems with my current credentials - the USCG could choose not to recognize this time for sea service credit I guess - any experience with this one?
Thanks in advance for any assistance. I am not too concerned with anyone’s advice on “how it should be” but prefer any experience on “how it is”, since we all know when dealing with the USCG that reason, logic, and “how it should be” rarely reflect the reality of the bureaucracy.
You need to “earn” it. I don’t care what you THINK you know, you need to work on real tugboats and experience push gear, parting tow gear, rounding up, dealing with a barge on 90’ of wire trying to run you over, towing alongside with a 180 degree of blind spot, ship docking with a 1000’ ship that is trying to roll you over, barges that drag anchor, barges that don’t have anchors, and doing all this working 6 on and 6 off with a four man crew in the dead of winter, then you can say that deserve a MOTV! Until then, good for the USCG for calling BS on your BS toar…good luck
Maybe the issue is that you’re claiming mate time on a “towing” vessel without a towing license! No way you can do a real toar on a anchor boat as far as I’m concerned.
The nature of your work has nothing to do with being granted a license. A MOTV doesn’t come with a clause that says “by the way, this guy can only work on this particular type of AHTS, in this particular area, doing this particular work”. A MOTV is for ALL types of towing vessels, not just yours. Once you got that little piece of paper you could go work on any old tug with it but you would not have actually done everything you should have in order to be able to be on the level with that job.
The USCG licensing structure is sparse enough as it is compared to some countries. Any dingbat with a birth certificate, a few bucks, and some time on his hands can get a license in this country. I once heard a fellow mariner say, “If I locked my wife in a room with my text books for two weeks, by the time she came out she’d be able to sit for and pass any license test, having never worked a day at sea.” This is hyperbole but it still has a ring of truth to it. If you want that fancy little piece of paper then as a very MINIMUM you should complete every single requirement the USCG has, without exception.
[QUOTE=coldduck;133053]But it’s ok for guys that run ATBs that never come out of the pins to get a Master of tow?[/QUOTE]
Don’t know a real tugboat company that works that way. I can’t think of anyone I know running an ATB that didn’t spend years on a wire or hawser boat. Ship companies that run ATB’s (OSG, US Shipping, Crowley) maybe a different story.
[QUOTE=z-drive;133050]Maybe the issue is that you’re claiming mate time on a “towing” vessel without a towing license! No way you can do a real toar on a anchor boat as far as I’m concerned.[/QUOTE]
How many days per year does an AHTS vessel actually spend running anchors?
In the year that I was on an anchor boat (quite awhile ago) we spent a lot of time hauling mud and drill pipe, but not much time towing rigs and running anchors.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;133057]How many days per year does an AHTS vessel actually spend running anchors?
In the year that I was on an anchor boat (quite awhile ago) we spent a lot of time hauling mud and drill pipe, but not much time towing rigs and running anchors.[/QUOTE]
Yep, but the USCG rarely sees it that way in my experience. If they see that you’re calling it a towing vessel in the context of a toar, unless you break it down by days towing/days not they tend to assume that its a towing vessel all the time, thus beyond scope of license. I doubt it would be an issue to sort out with proper documentation though.
OK - Guess I need to clarify a few things.
I re-read my post to see what might have invited such hostility (besides just posting - which itself is an invitation for open season).
I can see how it may have come across, and I probably shouldn’t even have mentioned my unlimited license, but I am NOT an academy guy (though I have nothing against them) who decided it would be nice to have the MOTV notch on my belt. This is not my first rodeo - I have over 25 years sea time including tugs. I am a hawsepiper who started in the oil field for $35/day as a deckhand in the late eighties without a single scrap of credentials. I worked my way up through AB, 100T, 500T, 1600T, 3MU, 2MU, teaching myself mostly - so get off my back about “earning” it. Most of my towing time was before MOTV and I never bothered to get grandfathered in when it came about. I didn’t really think I would use it, and I heard that if you don’t maintain recency - you lose it any way, so I didn’t bother. I was getting a bit of burn out on the unlimited DP vessels, and the money was right so I took my current deal.
The vessels I have been on are not the AHTS of the gulf that do an occasional rig move every six months. You could even drop the “S” since we never carry any supplies - only servicing AND TOWING pipelay/derrick barges - often running anchors around the clock for weeks on end. I have experience everything OSV-Florida detailed (except perhaps the 1000’ ship - only barges).
We do have a DE on board - in fact most of the folks I work with are DEs.
Is it just the tunnel vision of the USCG (and apparently some mariners) that subscribes to the school of thought that a vessel must have “pushing gear” to be considered a tug? There are other vessels in the towing industry besides inland push boats, ATBs/ITBs.
Why is it that a vessel must enter US waters in order to be considered a tug? There is a big world out there and the US is only a small part of it?
Anyway - back to my original question - Does anyone have any experience with these issues.
Or - you can just rant on about how your experience is so much more valuable that mine and make you a REAL Captain, and not Me - I don’t care - I can take it.
I think you have mischaracterized our responses because of your own tunnel vision in a wild goose chase. I don’t doubt that you have a broad and far-reaching set of experiences and probably know quite a bit about towing. I would go so far as to say that I wouldn’t be surprised if you could even teach the USCG a thing or two about tugs and towing. You probably work very hard and are very good at your job. I don’t doubt any of this about you, but when it comes to the case of your receiving a MOTV from the USCG it is still plain for anyone to see that you have not completed the minimum requirements and therefor do not qualify for the endorsement. There is literally nothing in the vast realm of the English language that you could write to the USCG in order to get them to change their minds. You are most definitely barking up the wrong tree.
Why not use your network and hop a towing vessel stateside with a DE and demonstrate pushgear quickly? Someone with your experience ought to know a guy or two who can help out.
[QUOTE=z-drive;133101]Why not use your network and hop a towing vessel stateside with a DE and demonstrate pushgear quickly? Someone with your experience ought to know a guy or two who can help out.[/QUOTE]
Thanks - Might just do exactly that Z-Drive. Wondering though - if the vessels I am currently employed on do not qualify for a TOAR sign-off, then it only stands to reason that Anchor Handling Tugs do not require a MOTV - correct? Can’t have your cake and eat it too!? Anyone have any actual regs/policy letters define what requires a MOTV?
