# Thoughts on Measly Jones Act Wind Farm Tonnage **URL:** \ **Category:** Offshore\ **Created:** [September 22, 2022, 9:12pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/thoughts-on-measly-jones-act-wind-farm-tonnage/64198 "2022-09-22T21:12:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 9:23pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/thoughts-on-measly-jones-act-wind-farm-tonnage/64198/21 "2022-09-26T21:23:11Z")
Yes I know. Ugland is another Norwegian Shipping company with operations in Canada: > **[Canadian Ship Management - The J.J. Ugland Companies](https://www.jjuc.no/shipping-/canadian-ship-management)** Maersk Supply is also active in the Canadian offshore market: [https://www.nor47business.com/en/company/Maersk-Supply-Service-Canada-Ltd](https://www.nor47business.com/en/company/Maersk-Supply-Service-Canada-Ltd) As is several other European companies ---
**Author:** ![BeerCaptain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@BeerCaptain](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/BeerCaptain)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 11:50pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/thoughts-on-measly-jones-act-wind-farm-tonnage/64198/22 "2022-09-26T23:50:10Z")
> [@boatlover](#): > > But aren’t the MLL ships all in MSP? And a bunch of APL vessels + others on that list, but they are all foreign flag right? The APL and MLL ships are US flag but foreign built ---
**Author:** ![tugsailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@tugsailor](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tugsailor)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2022, 12:29am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/thoughts-on-measly-jones-act-wind-farm-tonnage/64198/23 "2022-09-27T00:29:03Z")
Foreign built, flagged and crewed offshore wind installation vessels have already been working in the US. So Jones Act not much of a problem. The US passes out Jones Act waivers and work visas for foreign crew in the oil patch like candy. Apparently offshore wind expects the same. There is a process by which foreign built vessels can be “naturalized” into the US. It takes an act of Congress for each vessel. It’s not common, but it is occasionally done. The US Government can buy foreign vessels and then sell them to American corporations, they then become Jones Act qualified. If foreign built, flag and crewed vessels can operate I. Offshore wind, certainly they still could if reflagged US with US or mixed crews. ---
**Author:** ![boatlover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@boatlover](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/boatlover)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2022, 3:25pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/thoughts-on-measly-jones-act-wind-farm-tonnage/64198/24 "2022-09-27T15:25:25Z")
yes yes, that is what I meant, foreign built, thank you ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2022, 4:58pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/thoughts-on-measly-jones-act-wind-farm-tonnage/64198/25 "2022-09-27T16:58:31Z")
> [@tugsailor](#): > > Foreign built, flagged and crewed offshore wind installation vessels have already been working in the US. So Jones Act not much of a problem. Agree. So what is your problem if some foreign vessels do so in the future? > [@tugsailor](#): > > The US Government can buy foreign vessels and then sell them to American corporations, they then become Jones Act qualified. That is assuming that there are some willing sellers of suitable vessels and sufficient trained and qualified crews to man them. Aren’t there already a shortage for the existing US fleet? > [@tugsailor](#): > > If foreign built, flag and crewed vessels can operate I. Offshore wind, certainly they still could if reflagged US with US or mixed crews. They have to go to Canada to load up the equipment they are there to assemble into working wind turbines, or do risky offshore transfer from barges to avoid infringement of the JA and OCS rules. Note; The WTIVs are jacked up when operating to form a steady platform. No place to moor a barge alongside) ---
**Author:** ![boatlover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@boatlover](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/boatlover)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2022, 6:12pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/thoughts-on-measly-jones-act-wind-farm-tonnage/64198/26 "2022-09-27T18:12:02Z")
> [@ombugge](#): > > That is assuming that there are some willing sellers of suitable vessels and sufficient trained and qualified crews to man them. Aren’t there already a shortage for the existing US fleet? I’ll challenge a crew shortage in 2 ways; talent and wages Yes the maritime industry requires a lot of training and time, I understand it can take longer to be Captain than a Brain Surgeon, but we train soooo many people. There can’t be a shortage of _qualified_ labor in the US industry. John Konrad has reported many a time that the 7 academies together produce enough 3rd mates every year to replace every 3rd in the US fleet. And that’s not even considering hawsepipers. Entry level ratings don’t need much training so there’s no talent barrier there. Where are all the trained folks I describe? Its not a crew shortage its a wage shortage. I’d quit sailing and work at McDonalds serving burgers if they paid me $500,000 a year to do it. What companies mean when they say “labor shortage” in this context is they just don’t want to train or pay US seafarers. its bs ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2022, 9:23pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/thoughts-on-measly-jones-act-wind-farm-tonnage/64198/27 "2022-09-27T21:23:19Z")
These types of ships requires more than just min. USCG and/or STCW license for a vessel of similar size carrying cargo from A to B. The WTIVs have DP-3 Class, are self–elevating and have a main crane of up to 2000+ M.tonnes SWL Here is what MAY be coming to the US market (if you don’t manage to kill the goose before the eggs are laid): > **[ABS Awards AIP for Ned Project's Hydrogen-ready WTIV Design Aimed for U.S....](https://www.oedigital.com/news/490861-abs-awards-aip-for-ned-project-s-hydrogen-ready-wtiv-design-aimed-for-u-s-offshore-wind-market)** > > Classification society American Bureau of Shipping (ABS) has granted its Approval in Principle (AIP) to Ned Project Inc. for its… The work they carry out is nothing like what is thaught in any Maritime Academy, or experienced on a trading ship, OSV, or Drill Ship/Drilling Rig. The OSVs may not be as complicated as the WTIVs, but still a far cry from most ships/OSVs: > **[SOV | CSOV | W2W | ISV - Windfarm support vessels - Ulstein](https://ulstein.com/ship-design/offshore-wind)** > > Offshore wind vessel designs and ship references. Service Operation Vessel SOV/CSOV, Installation Support Vessel ISV. Reliable Walk-To-Work platforms W2W. ---
**Author:** ![tugsailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@tugsailor](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tugsailor)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2022, 9:42pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/thoughts-on-measly-jones-act-wind-farm-tonnage/64198/28 "2022-09-27T21:42:31Z")
Which is why offshore wind should be training Americans now in other markets. And why mixed crews would be needed initially. Anything can be bought for the right price. Publicly listed companies ca be bought on the stock exchange through a hostile takeover. Just like Kjell Inge did with Aker. If foreign companies don’t want to reflag offshore wind vessels US and hire Americans, that’s ok. They can stay home or go somewhere else. The US put men on the Moon over 50 years ago. No one else has ever been able to do it. The US operates rovers on Mars. Europeans don’t have the ability to do that. The US is a high tech industrialized country that can certainly figure out how to build and operate offshore wind installation vessels. The thing that is different about offshore wind in the US is that it is heavily subsidized by US taxpayers and more importantly, US households paying higher electric bills. If US offshore wind is not going to be reserved for American workers, higher taxes and electric rates cannot be justified, and offshore wind should not be built. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/capt_phoenix/32/281_2.png) [@Capt\_Phoenix](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Capt_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2022, 11:34pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/thoughts-on-measly-jones-act-wind-farm-tonnage/64198/29 "2022-09-27T23:34:10Z")
> [@ombugge](#): > > do risky offshore transfer from barges to avoid infringement of the JA and OCS rules. That’s what they’re going to be doing. ---
**Author:** ![tugsailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@tugsailor](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tugsailor)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2022, 3:15am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/thoughts-on-measly-jones-act-wind-farm-tonnage/64198/30 "2022-09-28T03:15:07Z")
Recruiters are advertising East Coast tugboat master and mate jobs supporting offshore wind construction for $450 to $550 a day (with a $500 cap on travel expenses). That’s at least a decade behind the times in the Northeast. They are not going to get anyone, at least not anyone that’s any good, at those rates. I don’t think they want to hire anyone. I think they just want to “prove” that American mariners are not available so that they can eliminate the tug and barge work and get Jones Act waivers for the construction vessels to load in the US. One can only hope that our government is not that stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/capt_phoenix/32/281_2.png) [@Capt\_Phoenix](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Capt_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2022, 3:34am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/thoughts-on-measly-jones-act-wind-farm-tonnage/64198/31 "2022-09-28T03:34:30Z")
> [@tugsailor](#): > > so that they can eliminate the tug and barge work and get Jones Act waivers for the construction vessels to load in the US. I don’t know what those tugs are supposed to do but I know at least some contracts are signed and the tug crew makes quite a bit more than what you posted. ---
**Author:** ![tugsailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@tugsailor](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tugsailor)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2022, 4:16am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/thoughts-on-measly-jones-act-wind-farm-tonnage/64198/32 "2022-09-28T04:16:01Z")
I just posed what the recruiter advertised. ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2022, 11:35am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/thoughts-on-measly-jones-act-wind-farm-tonnage/64198/33 "2022-09-28T11:35:14Z")
Yes as long as there are no JA compliant WTIVs they don’t have much choice but to risk life and limbs of crews and damages to both vessels and equipment. Anybody familiar with J/U operations know that the legs are designed for vertical load not bending and are highly susceptible to damages from any impact forces. (Luckily WTIVs have 4 or more legs, so they are less likely to topple over if one leg fail, than their 3-legged cousins) To hold an ordinary deck cargo barge in position within crane reach and away from the legs are no easy task; Even in good conditions and with multiple ASD-tugs in attendance it is difficult. With conventional twin-screw tugs, it is even more difficult. With fixed pitch props and clutches it becomes almost impossible for mer mortals. PS\> From the OWFs that was reported to suffer delays it is not too far to Halifax, though. ---
**Author:** ![tugsailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@tugsailor](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tugsailor)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2022, 10:01pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/thoughts-on-measly-jones-act-wind-farm-tonnage/64198/34 "2022-09-28T22:01:19Z")
The point is: the Jones Act is not the only limitation needed. No more foreign vessels operating from Canada or the Bahamas. If offshore wind is being built and paid for by American taxpayers and electric rate payers, it must be built by American labor. Otherwise, do Not build it. ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 1:02pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/thoughts-on-measly-jones-act-wind-farm-tonnage/64198/35 "2022-09-29T13:02:15Z")
As the wind turbines become larger in capacity they also gets physically larger and heavier, the supporting marine vessels has to develop to keep up. The installation vessel segment has thus split into two types: Foundation Installation Vessels are mostly floaters, equipped with large cranes, clamps and high capacity “hammers” to drive monopods: > **[Ulstein develops 8,000t foundation installation vessel - Ulstein](https://ulstein.com/news/ulstein-develops-8-000t-foundation-installation-vessel)** > > To provide for tomorrow’s needs in offshore wind, Ulstein has expanded its portfolio with the ULSTEIN HX122 design. The design features an ULSTEIN X-BOW® and an ultra-high-capacity crane, enabling operators and contractors to efficiently transport... The WTIVs have become larger, with larger and taller cranes, able to operate in deeper waters than before. This is necessary as the turbines has become heavier, the towers taller and the blades longer.The need for a stabil work platform has only become more important: [https://www.cadeler.com/en/vessels/x-class-vessels/](https://www.cadeler.com/en/vessels/x-class-vessels/) Since the OWFs are moving further offshore and away from staging bases, feeder vessels are sometime used to bring the various component to the WTIVs.These vessel are purpose built to be able to safely transport the various component in a position best suited for offshore lifting and equipped with ultra-small dynamically positioning (DP) footprint for safe distance from the WTIV legs during the transfer: > **[Feeder Vessels - Ulstein](https://ulstein.com/ship-design/feeder-vessels)** > > With the strong, global developments in offshore wind, our feeder and heavy transport vessels have been developed to serve the needs of the industry. Always featuring a large and strong open deck area, our designs offer a well-balanced combination of... The transport and installation of Substations are more similar to what has been common for oil & gas installations in shallow waters. It has been mostly been performed by existing SSCVs: ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/gcaptain_maritime_forum/original/3X/5/b/5b888dbdfd62a8d87b70273f92ef745ec7090738.jpeg) [https://www.offshore-mag.com/renewable-energy/article/14277931/sleipnir-installs-first-nng-wind-substation-offshore-scotland](https://www.offshore-mag.com/renewable-energy/article/14277931/sleipnir-installs-first-nng-wind-substation-offshore-scotland) With the new FIVs with larger cranes this MAY also be done with those in the future. ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2022, 9:22pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/thoughts-on-measly-jones-act-wind-farm-tonnage/64198/36 "2022-09-30T21:22:54Z")
New solutions are coming fast and furious: > **[NOV, GustoMSC Present New Wind Turbine Blade Installation Solution](https://www.offshorewind.biz/2022/09/27/nov-gustomsc-present-new-wind-turbine-blade-installation-solution/)** > > NOV Lifting & Handling and GustoMSC have introduced the Sjøhest Wind Blade Installation (WBI) solution with the goal to improve the offshore wind turbine blade installation efficiency. Maybe soon to be seen on a US built WTIV? This solution doesn’t need a specialized vessel: > **[Fred. Olsen 1848, Huisman Introduce Novel Solution for Major Component...](https://www.offshorewind.biz/2022/09/27/fred-olsen-1848-huisman-introduce-novel-solution-for-major-component-exchange-on-floating-wind-farms/)** > > Fred. Olsen 1848 and Huisman have developed a new concept for major component exchange on floating offshore wind farms and aim to bring the solution into operation before the end of this decade. > [@](#): > > The crane, whose in-field deployment can be performed by a **regular offshore support vessel** , is positioned on the floating structure and operates with the same motions as the floating foundation. PS\> That “regular OSV” will probably need to have a fairly large AHC crane and DP-2 class. ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 4:29pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/thoughts-on-measly-jones-act-wind-farm-tonnage/64198/37 "2022-10-02T16:29:00Z")
US and German Firms Unveil Jones Act-Compliant Offshore Wind Farm Installation Solution: > **[US and German Firms Unveil Jones Act-Compliant Offshore Wind Farm...](https://www.offshorewind.biz/2022/09/27/us-and-german-firms-unveil-jones-act-compliant-offshore-wind-farm-installation-solution/)** > > A consortium led by Germany-based ONP Management and US-based Renewable Resources International has developed the Jones Act-compliant transport and installation vessel solution, named Feederdock, for the US market. Does that mean that only the ATB need to be JA compliant, bringing the component out to a foreign built WTIV that stays offshore, yet eliminating the tricky and risky bit of transferring heavy items at sea? > [@](#): > > _“This unique arrangement avoids challenging “floating-to-fixed” component transfers at sea by enabling a secure “fixed-to-fixed” turbine installation process which is preferred by the leading wind turbine manufacturers”,_ according to the partners. ---
**Author:** ![boatlover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@boatlover](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/boatlover)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 5:51pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/thoughts-on-measly-jones-act-wind-farm-tonnage/64198/38 "2022-10-02T17:51:48Z")
> [@ombugge](#): > > The work they carry out is nothing like what is thaught in any Maritime Academy, or experienced on a trading ship, OSV, or Drill Ship/Drilling Rig. The US has mariners who work on liftboats, and are there no dp3 vessels in the us fleet? There are also US nationals who work on foreign vessels, chances are there are 1 or 2 that have been working on wind farm vessels and would come over here to work. Who’s to say the US can’t figure it out? Someone figured out how the first dp3 vessel, jackup rig, wtiv etc. works with no experience. Silly to assume people living in North America are unable to learn how to operate wind farm vessels ---
**Author:** ![tugsailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@tugsailor](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tugsailor)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 6:09pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/thoughts-on-measly-jones-act-wind-farm-tonnage/64198/39 "2022-10-02T18:09:48Z")
Since you are not Norwegian, you just don’t understand. Norwegians know everything, no one else knows shit. Well, there is one Norwegian that admits the Chinese know something. Americans? Fuggitaboutit !!! (Unfortunately, I don’t know how to say that it Norwegian). ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 7:35pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/thoughts-on-measly-jones-act-wind-farm-tonnage/64198/40 "2022-10-02T19:35:31Z")
> [@boatlover](#): > > Who’s to say the US can’t figure it out? Someone figured out how the first dp3 vessel, jackup rig, wtiv etc. works with no experience. Silly to assume people living in North America are unable to learn how to operate wind farm vessels Nobody say “the US” can’t figure out anything, but why reinvent something that already has been invented? Why not do like the rest of the world did 30,40,50 years ago when the Offshore Oil & Gas industry spread from the GoM to the North Sea, S.E.Asia and other places? They learnt from the Americans, then modified and improved on the metodes and equipment to suit local needs and conditions. > [@tugsailor](#): > > Americans? Fuggitaboutit !!! > (Unfortunately, I don’t know how to say that it Norwegian). Don’t worry, neither do I, so fuggit about it!!!: [https://www.tiktok.com/@original\_fuggetaboutit/video/7079557896660405509?is\_from\_webapp=v1&item\_id=7079557896660405509](https://www.tiktok.com/@original_fuggetaboutit/video/7079557896660405509?is_from_webapp=v1&item_id=7079557896660405509) [Previous page](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/thoughts-on-measly-jones-act-wind-farm-tonnage/64198.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/thoughts-on-measly-jones-act-wind-farm-tonnage/64198.md?page=3)