# Storm Avoidance - Crew calling the DPA **URL:** \ **Category:** Professional Mariner Forum\ **Created:** [October 30, 2022, 12:03pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/storm-avoidance-crew-calling-the-dpa/64495 "2022-10-30T12:03:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Hogsnort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ba8739/32.png) [@Hogsnort](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Hogsnort)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2022, 7:49pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/storm-avoidance-crew-calling-the-dpa/64495/41 "2022-11-10T19:49:40Z")
I was second mate of a Resolution Bay class container ship built in the same yard as the Muchen. She was 150 miles from where the Muchen went down. An apprenticeship and time as a junior officer with Bank Line gave one an excellent grounding in a nautical education given the various cargo’s carried. I remember in about 1971 a couple of Bank Line cadets came onboard the Texaco Tanker in Durban where I was Second Mate with our cadets for breakfast. They made a clean sweep of the menu. ---
**Author:** ![NWWaterman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ea924/32.png) [@NWWaterman](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/NWWaterman)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2022, 9:27pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/storm-avoidance-crew-calling-the-dpa/64495/42 "2022-11-10T21:27:07Z")
> [@yacht\_sailor](#): > > In the “Perfect Storm”, the crew of the Satori were inexperienced and terrified. They called in a Mayday against the captain’s wishes, a VERY dangerous rescue ensued, and then the skipper had to go find the boat after the storm. The boat was fine It irks me to this day how the movie (not the book) depicted that whole fiasco. Despite not actually naming him (and changing the name of the boat), they did Ray Leonard bad. ---
**Author:** ![johnny.dollar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f8ce5/32.png) [@johnny.dollar](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/johnny.dollar)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2022, 2:02am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/storm-avoidance-crew-calling-the-dpa/64495/43 "2022-11-11T02:02:14Z")
> [@Hogsnort](#): > > The maritime industry differs from the airline industry in that those in charge of a vessel are free to use their judgement whether they are truly capable or not. Checks and balances of the airline world are designed around the faults (and ego) of humans. That is why the statistics on safety are so amazing. The maritime industry is living in the past and doesn’t care…and it will never change until losses cause enough pain for the insurance companies. Most ships get there on time, most of the time. It’s good enuf’. ---
**Author:** ![Kennebec\_Captain](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/kennebec_captain/32/13_2.png) [@Kennebec\_Captain](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Kennebec_Captain)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2022, 11:33am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/storm-avoidance-crew-calling-the-dpa/64495/44 "2022-11-11T11:33:59Z")
Of course a captain wants avoid making an error that causes the crew to call the DPA. That why it’s important to “show your work”. Have the mates do the avoidance problem on a chart, on bridge chart table where everyone can see and evaluate. I wrote about the _Satori_ [here](http://kennebeccaptain.blogspot.com/2010/02/heavy-weather-encounter-satori.html). ---
**Author:** ![Kennebec\_Captain](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/kennebec_captain/32/13_2.png) [@Kennebec\_Captain](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Kennebec_Captain)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 1:05pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/storm-avoidance-crew-calling-the-dpa/64495/45 "2022-11-13T13:05:38Z")
> [@Hogsnort](#): > > I was master of an AHTS working with a jack up 2 miles from an airport. In certain weather conditions the airport closed down. They didn’t care whether you were Chuck Yeager all flights were canceled. > Working the rig remained my decision, there were no parameters laid down. That’s two different things. Ships can use weather parameters but they are set by the captain. If the mates know what the weather limits are they should be able to evaluate a route. EDIT: Working a rig would be similar to transferring cargo or bunkering in an off-shore anchorage. If the weather comes up lines can be adjusted or extra lines run. If things get to dicey then can cut loose. The situation can be judged in real time, no need to have any parameters. ---
**Author:** ![tengineer1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@tengineer1](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tengineer1)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 6:02pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/storm-avoidance-crew-calling-the-dpa/64495/46 "2022-11-13T18:02:58Z")
> [@Kennebec\_Captain](#): > > That’s two different things. Ships can use weather parameters but they are set by the captain. If the mates know what the weather limits are they should be able to evaluate a route. Airlines used to let their captains determine the weather parameters until it was decided that some captains weren’t good at determining safe parameters which caused too many people to be killed which cost a lot of money. [Airline captains used to get silent bonuses for on time arrival just like ship captains.] Ship cargo loss is cheaper to pay than people loss so I doubt things will change in shipping other than insurance cost. ---
**Author:** ![Kennebec\_Captain](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/kennebec_captain/32/13_2.png) [@Kennebec\_Captain](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Kennebec_Captain)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 12:55pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/storm-avoidance-crew-calling-the-dpa/64495/47 "2022-11-14T12:55:24Z")
> [@tengineer1](#): > > I doubt things will change in shipping other than insurance cost. This isn’t about making industry- wide changes. Any captain can specify weather limits and have them put in the voyage plan. Some do some don’t. I find it useful. YMMV. As far as what is meant by weather limits; it’d be specific wave/swell height and wind speeds above which adjustments of course and speed are required to avoid excess vessel motion, engine load or overspeed and the like. ---
**Author:** ![yacht\_sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ed655f/32.png) [@yacht\_sailor](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/yacht_sailor)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 9:47pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/storm-avoidance-crew-calling-the-dpa/64495/48 "2022-11-14T21:47:42Z")
The dispatch system and strong union backing against discipline for refusing flights acts as a giant firewall to keep airline management from pushing pilots to make unsafe flights. An individual captain on his own cannot do this for long, you need to know it isn’t going to be your last trip if you go the long away around Hurricane Ginormous. ---
**Author:** ![Kennebec\_Captain](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/kennebec_captain/32/13_2.png) [@Kennebec\_Captain](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Kennebec_Captain)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2022, 12:08pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/storm-avoidance-crew-calling-the-dpa/64495/49 "2022-11-16T12:08:55Z")
> [@yacht\_sailor](#): > > An individual captain on his own cannot do this for long, I’m saying the opposite, individual captains do this far more often than not. We don’t know how many captains that get into trouble and claim commercial pressure are just inept at avoidance. ---
**Author:** ![Ausmariner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Ausmariner](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Ausmariner)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 11:16pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/storm-avoidance-crew-calling-the-dpa/64495/50 "2022-12-10T23:16:12Z")
Another example. > **[William said that his ship was 'about to hit some nasty weather'. He hasn't...](https://apple.news/AWHfidEbhQF6rnbUYgSPRPQ)** > > An ABC investigation can reveal the owner of a ship that sank in a typhoon two years ago, killing 41 people, had repeated safety concerns flagged by maritime authorities and may have been operating while insolvent, according to auditors. It is August... ---
**Author:** ![johnny.dollar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f8ce5/32.png) [@johnny.dollar](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/johnny.dollar)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 6:51am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/storm-avoidance-crew-calling-the-dpa/64495/51 "2022-12-11T06:51:37Z")
Nonsense, a few more hours of BRM training will easily fix this entrenched problem. ---
**Author:** ![Ausmariner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Ausmariner](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Ausmariner)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 8:43am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/storm-avoidance-crew-calling-the-dpa/64495/52 "2022-12-11T08:43:00Z")
……It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Hogsnort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ba8739/32.png) [@Hogsnort](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Hogsnort)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 5:09pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/storm-avoidance-crew-calling-the-dpa/64495/53 "2022-12-11T17:09:08Z")
Half dollar Johnny and his erudite comments. ---
**Author:** ![Ausmariner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Ausmariner](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Ausmariner)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 6:45pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/storm-avoidance-crew-calling-the-dpa/64495/54 "2022-12-11T18:45:38Z")
Hogsnort, 41 good men, including Australians and Kiwis, died in that that incident and this clown comes back with that retort. This is the first time that I have employed the “user ignore” function in account settings. Not even Heiwa deserved that ignominy ….at least he was occasionally entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![johnny.dollar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f8ce5/32.png) [@johnny.dollar](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/johnny.dollar)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 10:20pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/storm-avoidance-crew-calling-the-dpa/64495/55 "2022-12-11T22:20:16Z")
> [@Hogsnort](#): > > Half dollar Johnny and his erudite comments The only way a problem can be fixed is to first admit there is a problem. Are you and mr sensitive Ausboy going to admit there is an entrenched industry wide problem or not? Captains sailing into bad storms has been a big factor in most of major damages and shipping tragedies of recent history, has it not? ---
**Author:** ![BigWhit](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/bigwhit/32/37073_2.png) [@BigWhit](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/BigWhit)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 12:36am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/storm-avoidance-crew-calling-the-dpa/64495/56 "2022-12-12T00:36:46Z")
A 34 y/o master? The photo in the article of the captain didn’t have even a hint of gray hair. Perhaps there was some “confidence of youth” in this sad case. Its not very wise to be proud of your insufficiency. ---
**Author:** ![DamnYankee](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/damnyankee/32/514_2.png) [@DamnYankee](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/DamnYankee)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 11:35am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/storm-avoidance-crew-calling-the-dpa/64495/57 "2022-12-12T11:35:10Z")
> [@BigWhit](#): > > A 34 y/o master? Once upon a time, I was a 33 year old Master. Your age doesn’t mean you are a reckless cowboy if you ask me. In my opinion, we are all susceptible to commercial pressure but the level headed among us will put the crew’s safety first and foremost. I just don’t think age has all that much to do with it. I’ve sailed with plenty of older Captains who were downright reckless. ---
**Author:** ![cmakin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/48db29/32.png) [@cmakin](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/cmakin)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 12:07pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/storm-avoidance-crew-calling-the-dpa/64495/58 "2022-12-12T12:07:48Z")
Back in '79, I sailed with a 32 year old master on a Lykes break bulk. ---
**Author:** ![BigWhit](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/bigwhit/32/37073_2.png) [@BigWhit](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/BigWhit)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 11:53pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/storm-avoidance-crew-calling-the-dpa/64495/59 "2022-12-12T23:53:34Z")
I wouldn’t say youth results in a reckless cowboy but wisdom is one of the gifts only gained by time and experience. I was a young child prodigy too, but, I admit I lacked wisdom. Now that I’m older and gray I recognize there is a lot I don’t know so being bold is held in reserve to prudence. ---
**Author:** ![Ausmariner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Ausmariner](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Ausmariner)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2022, 12:51am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/storm-avoidance-crew-calling-the-dpa/64495/60 "2022-12-13T00:51:40Z")
The “El Faro’s” deck officer complement had the Master and Mate at 53 and 54, the Second Mate at 34 and the Third Mate at 46. The engineering complement, all bar one, were very young. It is interesting to read the deck officer’s performance evaluations documented within the NTSB report. [Previous page](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/storm-avoidance-crew-calling-the-dpa/64495.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/storm-avoidance-crew-calling-the-dpa/64495.md?page=4)