# Spying **URL:** \ **Category:** Scuttlebutt\ **Created:** [March 17, 2022, 3:46pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/spying/62620 "2022-03-17T15:46:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Robert](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/robert/32/29295_2.png) [@Robert](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Robert)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2022, 3:46pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/spying/62620/1 "2022-03-17T15:46:41Z")
What I can’t figure it is why people attempting espionage always take such a huge risk for such a relatively low reward. > **[Report: American Couple Attempted to Sell Submarine Secrets to Brazil](https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/report-american-couple-attempted-to-sell-submarine-secrets-to-brazil)** > > The American couple who have pleaded guilty to attempting to sell nuclear submarine secrets to a for... ---
**Author:** ![2GENUSMM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/bc8723/32.png) [@2GENUSMM](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/2GENUSMM)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2022, 3:51pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/spying/62620/2 "2022-03-17T15:51:22Z")
Prosecute them to the maximum extent of the law and jail them forever… ---
**Author:** ![tengineer1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@tengineer1](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tengineer1)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2022, 4:42pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/spying/62620/3 "2022-03-17T16:42:53Z")
Those were some idiot spies. Selling nuclear sub secrets to Brazil, must not have been too valuable. Was Brazil the low bidder? ---
**Author:** ![yacht\_sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ed655f/32.png) [@yacht\_sailor](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/yacht_sailor)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2022, 12:05pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/spying/62620/4 "2022-03-18T12:05:41Z")
Brazil said “Well we don’t actually care about nuclear sub plans, but we’ll give you $34.95 anyway and maybe put the plans on eBay after you leave” ---
**Author:** ![navyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/919ad9/32.png) [@navyguy](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/navyguy)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2022, 3:19pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/spying/62620/5 "2022-03-19T15:19:49Z")
I will sell nuclear plans for a tank of gas! There is so much information available in the internet now I am wondering how it has hurt the traditional notion of spying. Open source media has so much information that one could piece it all together and come up with a lot of good stuff. ---
**Author:** ![tengineer1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@tengineer1](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tengineer1)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2022, 3:46pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/spying/62620/6 "2022-03-19T15:46:51Z")
25 years ago a guy I was working with found a sub screw (propeller) in the GSA catalog. He called and it was removed poste haste but damn… ---
**Author:** ![yacht\_sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ed655f/32.png) [@yacht\_sailor](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/yacht_sailor)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2022, 12:14pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/spying/62620/7 "2022-03-21T12:14:37Z")
How much? ---
**Author:** ![2GENUSMM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/bc8723/32.png) [@2GENUSMM](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/2GENUSMM)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2022, 1:16pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/spying/62620/8 "2022-03-21T13:16:14Z")
Here’s another “classic” case… Related to Sub prop technology… [Toshiba–Kongsberg scandal - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toshiba%E2%80%93Kongsberg_scandal) ---
**Author:** ![powerabout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/43a26b/32.png) [@powerabout](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/powerabout)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 2:25am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/spying/62620/9 "2022-03-22T02:25:53Z")
Kongsberg simrad story, companies had to split up to avoid US sanctions back then ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 11:46am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/spying/62620/10 "2022-03-22T11:46:11Z")
> [@powerabout](#): > > Kongsberg simrad story The so called Toshiba-Kongsberg scandal happened in the 1970s (1974-81) Kongsberg acquired Simrad in 1996 Here is the history of Kongsberg Maritime, if you would like to fact check: > **[Our history](https://www.kongsberg.com/maritime/about-us/who-we-are-kongsberg-maritime/Our-history/)** > > A brief introduction to the Kongsberg Maritime history with key events PS\> For some reason nothing said about any Toshiba - Kongsberg scandal. (??) ---
**Author:** ![powerabout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/43a26b/32.png) [@powerabout](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/powerabout)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 11:52am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/spying/62620/11 "2022-03-22T11:52:49Z")
Research why they sold simrad… I had a buddy working there at the time ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 12:03pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/spying/62620/12 "2022-03-22T12:03:00Z")
They sold part of Simrad that was not core business in 2005. It continued trading as Simrad Yachting: > [@](#): > > Kongsberg Maritime signs an agreement with the Nordic private equity fund Altor for the sale of the parts of Simrad that develop, manufacture and sell maritime electronics for use in yachts and small commercial vessels. The business will continue under the name Simrad Yachting. What is the conspiracy theory about why?? ---
**Author:** ![powerabout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/43a26b/32.png) [@powerabout](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/powerabout)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 12:04pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/spying/62620/13 "2022-03-22T12:04:26Z")
there was another issue with selling technology to russians ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 12:31pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/spying/62620/14 "2022-03-22T12:31:30Z")
By Simrad Yachting, or…?? If you have a juicy scandal to tell, please don’t keep it for yourself Did they sell some “Dual use” equipment to a yacht belonging to an oligarch?? ---
**Author:** ![powerabout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/43a26b/32.png) [@powerabout](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/powerabout)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 12:33pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/spying/62620/15 "2022-03-22T12:33:07Z")
I think it was propellor technology for subs, let me speak to my buddy again to get the story straight. ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 12:39pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/spying/62620/16 "2022-03-22T12:39:58Z")
Simrad Yachting doesn’t make propellers, but Kongsberg Maritime does. Where does Simrad get into it? PS\> We better wait for your buddy to “spill the beans” ---
**Author:** ![PDCMATE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2acd7d/32.png) [@PDCMATE](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/PDCMATE)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 1:09pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/spying/62620/17 "2022-03-22T13:09:35Z")
In 1987, the company was part of the company which involved a subsidiary of [Toshiba] and the Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk. The two provided the [Soviet Union] with technology (Toshiba milling machines and Kongsberg computer numerical controls) that could be used to produce quiet [submarine] [propellers], in violation of the [CoCom] agreement. The US always relied on the fact that the Soviets had noisy boats. Providing the USSR with technology that could make their subs harder to find and track was perceived as a significant threat to America’s security. To be awarded a key US defense contract, a major foreign defense contractor/ military shipbuilder such as Kongsberg Gruppen or its prior names would have been required to be holding/associated with a US entity which could be accomplished by Lowrance. Owning interest in Lowrance or its parent company or having a key financial investment in Lowrance could have satisfied such a need and also supplied valuable sonar expertise in the once Norwegian ship builder turned Defense Contractor’s building of a “sonar quiet” propeller for the U.S, A bid for classified development of propellers for the US nuclear submarines appears to have been made and a US Dept of Defense contract released to a Norwegian defense supplier and Lowrance’s and its sonar expertise may have been already fully or partly vested with Kongsberg Gruppen , the Norwegian defense builder. The association may have been indirect being aided by Kongsberg Maritime or what was later called Altor, a Norwegian investment group. Kongberg-Gruppen was prime contractor for the development of the "quiet US nuclear submarine propellers with special abilities to avoid detection by Russian or other SONAR. The relationships between sonar for fishing and sonar quiet design that is hiding traces of a spinning propeller’s wake, since the US-Kongberg scandal have since shuffled publicly, but remain with Investment Group entities in Norway referred to as Alcor, with continued close associations with Kongsberg Gruppen, currently holding Lowrance and Simrad through their parent companies such as Navico… ---
**Author:** ![powerabout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/43a26b/32.png) [@powerabout](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/powerabout)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 1:39pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/spying/62620/19 "2022-03-22T13:39:22Z")
it was to split up companies to be allowed to operate in the USA ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 4:22pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/spying/62620/20 "2022-03-22T16:22:48Z")
> [@PDCMATE](#): > > In 1987, the company was part of the company which involved a subsidiary of [Toshiba] and the Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk. Where did you get this quite from? (Refr. pls.) Appeared to be mixing apples and oranges. > [@PDCMATE](#): > > once Norwegian ship builder turned Defense Contractor’s Kongsberg has never been a “shipbuilder”. It was originally a weapons producer (still is) that got into marine electronics and into Marine equipment when it acquired Rolls-Royce Commercial Marine later (2019) > [@PDCMATE](#): > > Altor, a Norwegian investment group Altor is a Nordic Investment Group with Hq in Sweden and offices in Copenhagen, Oslo, Helsinki, on Jersey and in Zurich: [https://altor.com/about/](https://altor.com/about/) They bought up part of Simrad from Kongsberg and called it Simrad Yachting. Lowrance and Simrad Yachting are competitors on the small boat market, but use same technology and parts. None of them has anything to do with propellers. > [@powerabout](#): > > it was to split up companies to be allowed to operate in the USA Kongsberg Group is supplying sophisticated weapon systems and marine equipment to the US Defence Dept. and USCG to this day. That incl. M-72 Anti-tank weapons that are being supplied to Ukraine as we speak: > **[Norway sends military equipment and weapons to Ukraine](https://www.forsvaret.no/en/news/articles/equipment-and-weapons-to-ukraine)** > > The Norwegian Government has decided to donate military equipment and M72 anti-tank weapons to Ukraine. On Monday, the Norwegian Armed Forces sent off helmets, bulletproof vests, gas masks and food supplies.