# Sort of a Employment question
**URL:** https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/sort-of-a-employment-question/7719
**Category:** Maritime Employment
**Created:** [June 22, 2012, 11:26pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/sort-of-a-employment-question/7719 "2012-06-22T23:26:12Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Rebel\_Rider1969](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Rebel_Rider1969)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2012, 11:26pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/sort-of-a-employment-question/7719/1 "2012-06-22T23:26:12Z")
How many Mariner jobs are there out there??? 40,000? - 200,000?? (USA)
My MMC is in the 150,000 range based on the #, does that mean there’s 150,000 marniers??? Do they recycle the #'s?
I wonder how many have stopped or just quit doing it and just how many active workers there are.
Makes ya wonder if there is 150,000 mariners and 125,000 jobs…
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### Author:  [@c.captain](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/c.captain)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/sort-of-a-employment-question/7719/2 "2012-06-23T18:50:20Z")
if you consider all commercial vessels of any tonnage that require licenses or documents to work on, then I can easily see 150,000 in the country. Remeber you are taking about a lot of different types of vessels on all three coasts plus the Great Lakes and all the rivers.
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### Author:  [@cappy208](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/cappy208)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2012, 7:53pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/sort-of-a-employment-question/7719/3 "2012-06-23T19:53:10Z")
I don’t think they recycle the #'s.
Years ago our official numbers were the SSN. That was called a Z card. However an officer with a license got another number ( a license number.) So some of us had two numbers to remember. Then to throw a wrench into it, when we went to renew our license number changed at every renewal (or upgrade).
I’m my estimation (purely my opinion) the numbers of mariners is dropping, since they are requiring more and more at each renewal, at more cost.
It used to be that the basic seamans document (OS, AB) was a “lifetime” document in your possession. Until my Father in Law died, he still had his AB ticket from The 60’s! About 10 years ago they put an expiration on everyone’s. Then they started to require more training to renew. So this seems to be making it harder and harder for the ‘ordinary Joe’ to renew. Unless of course you have a job.
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### Author:  [@New3M](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/New3M)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2012, 8:36pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/sort-of-a-employment-question/7719/4 "2012-06-23T20:36:24Z")
[QUOTE=Rebel\_Rider1969;72250]How many Mariner jobs are there out there??? 40,000? - 200,000?? (USA)
My MMC is in the 150,000 range based on the #, does that mean there’s 150,000 marniers??? Do they recycle the #'s?
I wonder how many have stopped or just quit doing it and just how many active workers there are.
Makes ya wonder if there is 150,000 mariners and 125,000 jobs…[/QUOTE]
It means that yours is the 150,000th printed. My first one was un the 7000 range, and when I renewed it’s now in the 139k range. I think if you keep renewing you’ll just see the number keep on climbing.
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### Author:  [@seadog](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/seadog)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/sort-of-a-employment-question/7719/5 "2012-06-23T20:55:01Z")
From USCG Proceedings Fall 2008
DESCRIPTION… TOTAL… With STCW
MMD only… 72,179… 16,262
License only… 97,235… 2,712
Both License and MMD 44,489… 27,639
TOTALS… 213,903… 46,613
Demographics by state were not surprising:
FL = 33,000
CA = 17,000
LA = 17,000
NY = 11,000
WA = 11,000
By age:
50 - 59…54,000
Obviously I rounded those numbers.
North Dakota was clearly dead last with just 43 active Mariners.
They used to publish the numbers every year, but it’s too confusing for them to continue.
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### Author:  [@c.captain](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/c.captain)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/sort-of-a-employment-question/7719/6 "2012-06-23T22:15:00Z")
[QUOTE=cappy208;72285]Years ago our official numbers were the SSN. That was called a Z card. [/QUOTE]
Actually the term Z Card stems from before the time that the USCG used a SSN as the mariner identifion number. Prior to that, a mariner’s ID # was preceeded with the character “Z” hence where the term originated. I don’t know when that change occurred but know it was in the later half of the 70’s. My first MMD had my SSN so I don’t get to claim being that effing old!
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### Author:  [@Rebel\_Rider1969](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Rebel_Rider1969)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2012, 10:49pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/sort-of-a-employment-question/7719/7 "2012-06-23T22:49:49Z")
That’s some really good info. Makes ya really wonder about current numbers.
Why so low on the STCW??
I heard the “wonderful” TWIC card was in the 750,000 issued range…wow at $140 a pop…
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### Author:  [@ChiefRob](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ChiefRob)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/sort-of-a-employment-question/7719/8 "2012-06-24T02:37:59Z")
There are alot of folks that hold a license that do not require STCW, you don’t need it on the inland tow boats, I don’t think you need it on the great lakes, unless you have to have it for your license, most small yachts or fishing boats will not have to have it. The only people that will have STCW for the most part is blue water sailors. Most people will not spend money or time to have something that is not required for them to have. The reason the TWIC card numbers are so high, every sinlge person that works at a port or visits a port has to have one, including long shoremen, truck drivers, line handlers, agents, and this list could go on you get the idea. The TWIC card is one step short of a joke, even congress has admited it is nothing more than a fancy high price library card.
I still have my old Z card at home that did not have an expiration date, it was almost twice the size of the ones issued now days. I still prefer the old big paper licenses compared to the new Russian passport they give us now.
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### Author:  [@tugsailor](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tugsailor)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2012, 3:45am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/sort-of-a-employment-question/7719/9 "2012-06-24T03:45:45Z")
The vast majority of the 142,000 licenses are probably under 100 gross tons — who don’t need STCW.
It looks like there are about 167,000 “inside men”, and only about 47,000 “outside men”.
So the entire pool of mariners who have documents to work on deep sea ships, outside tugs, and in the oil field (over 100 tons) total only 47,000 men. Only 28,000 men have both a license and a MMD with STCW.
That 28,000 men must be the entire pool of mariners with outside licenses (over 100 tons).
I’d really like to seek a breakdown by license type. That might be a good topic for an article by a reporter from the gcaptain staff.
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### Author:  [@seadog](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/seadog)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2012, 5:10am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/sort-of-a-employment-question/7719/10 "2012-06-24T05:10:17Z")
[http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/proceedings/career\_pdfs/28%20DEMOGRAPHICS.pdf](http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/proceedings/career_pdfs/28%20DEMOGRAPHICS.pdf)
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### Author:  [@seadog](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/seadog)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2012, 5:24am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/sort-of-a-employment-question/7719/11 "2012-06-24T05:24:48Z")
[http://www.marad.dot.gov/documents/US\_Water\_Transportation\_Statistical\_snapshot.pdf](http://www.marad.dot.gov/documents/US_Water_Transportation_Statistical_snapshot.pdf)
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### Author:  [@c.captain](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/c.captain)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2012, 9:19am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/sort-of-a-employment-question/7719/12 "2012-06-24T09:19:50Z")
[QUOTE=tugsailor;72306]The vast majority of the 142,000 licenses are probably under 100 gross tons — who don’t need STCW. [/QUOTE]
I think the STCW cut off is at 200tons and only when working outside the baseline thus more tonnage is ok if only on inland waters.
Lots and lots of tugs and towboats out there. Have you ever sat at a dock on the ICW and watched the steady stream of towboat traffic just there? It is a veritable freeway at times!
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### Author:  [@Jolly\_Tar](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Jolly_Tar)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2012, 10:35am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/sort-of-a-employment-question/7719/13 "2012-06-24T10:35:25Z")
[QUOTE=Rebel\_Rider1969;72295]I heard the “wonderful” TWIC card was in the 750,000 issued range…wow at $140 a pop…[/QUOTE]
TWIC encompasses FAR more than us mariners. Every truck driver looking to enter Blount Island or Port Newark or NIT is required to have one
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### Author:  [@KPEngineer](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/KPEngineer)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2012, 11:28am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/sort-of-a-employment-question/7719/14 "2012-06-24T11:28:15Z")
> [@"Jolly Tar"](#):
>
> TWIC encompasses FAR more than us mariners. Every truck driver looking to enter Blount Island or Port Newark or NIT is required to have one
Not to mention a ton of taxi drivers.
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### Author:  [@tugsailor](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tugsailor)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2012, 11:52am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/sort-of-a-employment-question/7719/15 "2012-06-24T11:52:54Z")
[QUOTE=c.captain;72333]I think the STCW cut off is at 200tons and only when working outside the baseline thus more tonnage is ok if only on inland waters.
Lots and lots of tugs and towboats out there. Have you ever sat at a dock on the ICW and watched the steady stream of towboat traffic just there? It is a veritable freeway at times![/QUOTE]
REPLY
As I understand it, you are right. No STCW required for any license inside, and STCW only required for licenses over 200 tons outside. However, I still suspect that the vast majority of licenses are probably for motorboat operators, launch tenders, and “small” passenger vessels under 100 tons.
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### Author:  [@cappy208](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/cappy208)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2012, 12:06pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/sort-of-a-employment-question/7719/16 "2012-06-24T12:06:22Z")
So by that survey about 25% of us are about ready to kick off. Time for some new blood.
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### Author:  [@Bayrunner](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Bayrunner)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2012, 12:15pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/sort-of-a-employment-question/7719/17 "2012-06-24T12:15:15Z")
> [@"cappy208"](#):
>
> So by that survey about 25% of us are about ready to kick off. Time for some new blood.
Were here, we are just waiting for all you fogies to croak so we can move up!!
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### Author:  [@tugsailor](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tugsailor)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2012, 12:20pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/sort-of-a-employment-question/7719/18 "2012-06-24T12:20:38Z")
Here are the mariners by residence
STATE NUMBER OF MARINERS
AK Alaska 5,994
AL Alabama 3,939
AR Arkansas 948
AZ Arizona 860
CA California 17,208
CO Colorado 923
CT Connecticut 2,743
DC District of Columbia 106
DE Delaware 908
FL Florida 33,077
GA Georgia 2,555
HI Hawaii 4,977
IA Iowa 332
ID Idaho 472
IL Illinois 2,560
IN Indiana 1,173
KS Kansas 193
KY Kentucky 1,582
LA Louisiana 17,184
MA Massachusetts 8,032
MD Maryland 4,968
ME Maine 3,819
MI Michigan 5,599
MN Minnesota 1,127
MO Missouri 1,422
MS Mississippi 4,806
MT Montana 289
NC North Carolina 5,188
ND North Dakota 43
NE Nebraska 108
NH New Hampshire 1,275
NJ New Jersey 6,131
NM New Mexico 218
NV Nevada 1,080
NY New York 11,668
OH Ohio 3,449
Oklahoma 404
OR Oregon 3,214
PA Pennsylvania 3,139
RI Rhode Island 1,826
SC South Carolina 3,651
SD South Dakota 85
TN Tennessee 1,536
TX Texas 14,572
UT Utah 225
VA Virginia 7,744
VT Vermont 399
WA Washington 11,759
WI Wisconsin 1,811
WV West Virginia 676
WY Wyoming 122
AA APO/FPO 27
AB Alberta 1
AE APOP/FPO 38
AP APO/FPO 225
AS American Samoa 50
BC British Columbia 17
BT FPO 1
CZ Canal Zone 1
FM Fed St Micronesia 1
GU Guam 1,791
MH Marshall Islands 1
MP N Mariana Islands 221
NB New Brunswick 2
NS Nova Scotia 6
ON Ontario 8
PM Palau Island 3
PR Puerto Rico 1,366
QU Quebec 1
VI Virgin Islands 885
Incorrectly entered 1
Foreign 1,138
TOTAL 213,903
Customer service to mariners
DESCRIPTION TOTAL
MMDs issued 29,865
Licenses issued 32,276
STCW endorsements issued 15,379
Mariners denied credentials 1,417
Certificates of discharge
(sea service) entered 64,678
World War II
DD Form 214 issued 1,059
Correspondence answered 1,900
Service records accessed 117,809
Certificates verified 1,440
TOTAL 265,823
Citizenship
CITIZENSHIP NUMBER OF MARINERS
U.S. 207,817
Non-U.S. 6,086
TOTAL 213,903
Age
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### Author:  [@tugsailor](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tugsailor)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2012, 12:23pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/sort-of-a-employment-question/7719/19 "2012-06-24T12:23:33Z")
Mariners by AGE
AGE NUMBER OF MARINERS
\<19 1,639
20-29 36,023
30-39 38,285
40-49 51,607
50-59 53,869
60-69 27,003
\>70 5,471
Unrecorded 6
TOTAL 213,903
Mariners by Citizenship
CITIZENSHIP NUMBER OF MARINERS
U.S. 207,817
Non-U.S. 6,086
TOTAL 213,903
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### Author:  [@seadog](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/seadog)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2012, 5:07pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/sort-of-a-employment-question/7719/20 "2012-06-24T17:07:24Z")
[ATTACH]1968[/ATTACH]
This is a breakdown of where US mariners work in the WORK BOAT sector. (from Workboat magazine)
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