Shell-arctic-2014

Maritime News Press Releases
141

[QUOTE=c.captain;131135]ANYTHING is open to this discussion…why should what Shell and ECO do be considered some secret that we can’t talk about? This isn’t the military or foreign intelligence!

And keep names out of it btw, unless someone openly identifies themselves[/QUOTE]

This is a public forum so of course anything is open for discussion. But If you start talking about an ongoing project you are involved in you need to really watch your ass in what you say. Particularly where you are privy to information that may be considered confidential or if you signed a NDA. Most companies take a pretty dim view of their people doing that. If someone wants to play “Deep Throat” or remain anonymous they should set up their profile accordingly. Just sayin’

142

[QUOTE=Chief Seadog;131131]It is my understanding ECO will be building the next 2 icebreaker AHTS vessels for the charter by Shell. They will not be carbon copies of the Aiviq. That said, I doubt if the folks at STUSCO and ECO like to hear this sort of thing openly discussed.

To be honest Mainecheng I am surprised Shell hasn’t told you to quit lending your expertise to the discussion on this thread.[/QUOTE]
Not much more in this conversation at any rate… But why would would we want to keep details about enhancing our capability in the arctic quiet? The answer is sometimes we don’t and the rest of the time it has more to do with our partners.

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[QUOTE=Drill Bill;131148]mmm, would they really still hire someone for such a position (this year) if they ditched their AK drilling plans?[/QUOTE] They’ll interview. for sure. the hire timeframe decision still has to be made, but As I understand it not a ton of applicants- Of course there is criteria I suspect not all those that apply are meeting it.

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[QUOTE=Tups;131138]If you are referring to Nordica and Fennica, their ice class is “POLAR-10 Icebreaker” assigned by Det Norske Veritas. Since I’m not a structural specialist (and I have a day off from work so I can’t ask them), I’m not sure which ABS or IACS ice class would be comparable to them. Anyway, the ice strengthening of these ice classes far exceeds the requirements of the highest Baltic ice classes which are used primarily for mechant ships relying on icebreaker escort at least from time to time. Thus, I’d expect any “real” icebreaking vessel to be assigned either an IACS Polar Class or at least ABS’s own ice class (like Aiviq’s A3, but those might not be available to newbuildings anymore).

Anyway, as you said, it’s pure speculation until the companies announce what kind of vessels they are building. While I do have a strong professional interest to any icebreaking vessel being built or on the drawing boards, I do not want to fish out confidential information through this forum, so let’s keep the vessel specifications out of the discussion unless we can cite a public source.[/QUOTE]
Well that’s not what is says on my spec sheet but I’m not saying you’re wrong. There are like more than what 10 different Ice Class certification grades. from all over the Map, Oddly the Russians have their own. Possibly you can comment Do believe it’s even more robust. And for sure there is a big difference between Sea Ice, Baltic Ice and Polar Ice. I’ve got to look There is a new Classification on Arctic operations from Ice to Fuel to winterization. Not sure if it’s released or still open for comment.

143

[QUOTE=Chief Seadog;131151]This is a public forum so of course anything is open for discussion. But If you start talking about an ongoing project you are involved in you need to really watch your ass in what you say. Particularly where you are privy to information that may be considered confidential or if you signed a NDA. Most companies take a pretty dim view of their people doing that. If someone wants to play “Deep Throat” or remain anonymous they should set up their profile accordingly. Just sayin’[/QUOTE]

Not fun stuff, but it is absolutely the real world.

Hell, we can’t fart excepting that someone in the head office is complaining about the smell.
It is to the point we are starting to think that back stabbing is a sport.
Cannot even imagine the fallout if a CLIENT smelled it.

If you are really, truly in the know about anything here in Forum Wally World, then go deep and complain about the cable company and AT&T instead.

Saves the 'splaining WHEN it goes to shite.

And less 'splaining saves brain cells so they can do something useful, like chatting up that red head over yonder, or being killed by drink.

144

[QUOTE=mainecheng;131162]There are like more than what 10 different Ice Class certification grades. from all over the Map, Oddly the Russians have their own. Possibly you can comment Do believe it’s even more robust. And for sure there is a big difference between Sea Ice, Baltic Ice and Polar Ice. I’ve got to look There is a new Classification on Arctic operations from Ice to Fuel to winterization. Not sure if it’s released or still open for comment.[/QUOTE]

In the past, some classification societies developed and maintained their own ice class rules while the others only offered Baltic ice classes with equations copy-pasted from the Finnish-Swedish ice class rules. One of the reasons why IACS came up with the Polar Classes is to get rid of classification society-specific ice classes (such as ABS A3 or DNV POLAR-10) that are difficult to compare to each other. However, there are still some issues that need to be solved, and for that reason the Russians are still using their own system (Icebreaker and Arc classes in these days if I recall correctly). DNV has also retained the old system and maintains it parallel to the IACS rules (e.g. Fednav’s new Nunavik has two ice classes, DNV ICE-15 and IACS PC4). However, if I understood correctly, ABS only offers either PC or Baltic ice classes in these days.

The problem with Baltic ice classes is that they are designed for merchant ships that operate either under icebreaker escort or in brash ice channels that form on the shipping lanes. If you attempt to carry out icebreaking operations with a vessel that has been built according to the Baltic ice class rules, there’s quite a high probability that you’ll eventually damage your vessel particularly during manoeuvering. Also, unlike the IACS Polar Class rules, the Baltic ice class rules obviously do not take multi-year ice (polar ice) into account.

145

[QUOTE=Chief Seadog;131151]This is a public forum so of course anything is open for discussion. But If you start talking about an ongoing project you are involved in you need to really watch your ass in what you say. Particularly where you are privy to information that may be considered confidential or if you signed a NDA. Most companies take a pretty dim view of their people doing that. If someone wants to play “Deep Throat” or remain anonymous they should set up their profile accordingly. Just sayin’[/QUOTE]
The Scallop house has a very defined Policy related Commenting on the Internet/ Blogs. I am meeting the letter of that instruction and have not wavered outside of it. It may surprise you that they encourage individuals who are within the area of their Professional Responsibility to do so. Make sure when commenting to call out Opinions vs Company Policy. and to Identify themselves. SO I am a Shell Employee. I work in the Alaskan Venture. I work Directly with The Marine Companies involved. At a fairly high level. Don’t Ask me or start the conversation of how messed up x is or y is. If you know of an issue Love to hear it. I’ve spent much time since the end of last year going over survey’s from 2012 and some from 2013. (limited ops ) I’ve seen every Complaint. Seriously. I’m on here to get feedback and verify some of the issues. I talk to the companies frequently. The corporate line is well Company centric. The mariners are equally important. How they are treated, how they managed. The hurdles they faced. How their company reacted. - Their safety culture. The list goes. on. Yes in some instances many companies are a black box. I do not see Shell as one. They want to succeed, Badly. Not taking stock in what your workforce says is just another way of putting on blinders. SO This forum is as good as any other. The individuals who have been contributing in most cases have a stake. SO those who read this and think “this guys’s a nut for speaking out” you don’t know the half of it. I’m not looking for dirt. I’m interested in how we can do it better. Part of that is to keep you informed on areas there is no Critical gag order on or there exists no NDA regarding what I say. If you ask a questions I need to leave alone. I’ll say so or redirect. So Sea Dog I’m not anonymous, several have figured out who I am. I don’t need to wave the flag. it’s not all black ops. I’ve done that work before and this brother this is far from it. Those that worked the 12 season. Give me your feedback. What did not go so well, What went very well. Here is your chance. - If you did not work but have a comment or question you never understood Ask. If you are interested in coming up in 15 there are some who whent who read this and comment often. They most likely have the answers. There may be policy changes since 12 if so I’ll address them. So who wants to be a Protected Species Observer?

146

You fill the slot Lynn held before she headed to greener pastures?

147

Are you going to continue busting his balls for no reason?

148

Lots of chiefs here geez

149

[QUOTE=mainecheng;131211]It may surprise you that they encourage individuals who are within the area of their Professional Responsibility to do so.[/QUOTE]

Actually, I’m not that surprised that at this day and age companies, particularly the big ones participating in projects that get a lot of public commentary, are introducing policies like this. While the company, as an entity, can publish statements as a response to claims made by e.g. politicians and other major public figures, it can’t patrol every news commentary section or discussion forum. So, instead they can tell their employees that it’s okay to participate in discussion as long as they identify themself by position and follow the guidelines set by the company. In this way, they can perhaps prevent false information from spreading.

Since I work in a small company, we don’t have any policies apart from the obvious (customer confidentality). However, as long as I don’t use my position as an argument (I hate when people do that) or give out confidental information, I should be in safe waters. I also like to add links to public documents, websites and news in my posts to show that the information is publicly available.

150

Sign me up, from a fellow Maine guy.

151

Forum as an information source can be good idea.

The [I]Driller’s Club[/I] forum members identified the most likely cause of the [I]Deepwater Horizon[/I] blowout within a matter of a few days, and looking back - at the time it was raw speculation by uninvolved (but experienced) third parties, based on what little was publiclly known. And their guesses, down to very particular details, were correct as the investigation later showed. So there can be some value for a forum user.

Maybe maritime professional life revolves around five basic Parts.

  1. The Work - The part that is 99.999% of all that is involved
  2. The Incident - The part that happens from time to time
  3. The Investigation - The part that hopefully figures it out and allows all to be made right with the world again.
  4. The Deposition - The FUN part
  5. The Trial - The part that brings it all together in Technicolor

Now if we are lucky, we never get beyond Part 1 in our entire career. Even the odd Part 2 and even Part 3 with only minor consequences can be seen as a learning opportunity. Most people never even are involved in an incident or investigation.

When it gets to Part 4, and there is big money involved, your Boss’s Boss that you never met is sweating the details and a a swarm of lawyers will definitely be in attack mode. If you are being deposed in a serious manner, you will not forget the lesson.

Assuming you were part of the Incident, or a part of the Investigation, AND them’s that are askin’ are not so favourably disposed to your version of events, you can bet they have or are looking at everything they can find that you have ever written. It is their job, and the more money involved, the better they are at it.

After investigating and reporting on one serious maritime casualty, I was deposed. This involved many hours of interrogation by six lawyers, and eventually I had to take a leak. So leaving the deposition room to do the necessary, I opened a door in the hall thinking it was the head.

No - it was a Boiler Room, with ANOTHER bank of lawyers and paralegals - and not the ones I was introduced to and were grilling me. These ones had my testimony up on screens in real time, while on separate screens they were running web searches and reviewing my writings. These wankers were then feeding back an updated series of questions to the lawyers taking the deposition itself, again in real time. So it was unpleasant as they could possibly make it, even if in the end there were no issues with me and the case was settled in good order.

The lesson was that if there is real money involved, they WILL seek to discredit you in order to support THEIR side of the story. And if they succeed, your Boss’s Boss ain’t gonna be likin’ it, and I suppose the arc of one’s maritime career will begin a matching trajectory. In another case one fellow (smugly sitting with the lawyers for 11 hours as he advised them what to ask me) “stretched” his findings and the lawyers for the clients I assisted found out. They absolutely flayed him at deposition and trial and he ended up being released to seek other opportunities. I have seen him slithering around the industry from time to time, but his name is associated with falsehood. Now these lessons are not particular to you or me or any particular person on the forum. It is just the way it will happen.

Part 5 is a little more civilized, at least in federal Court. Trials seem more like theater than investigation. But a couple of days on the stand will cure your curiosity. Some of these lawyers are so good at selling their version of events to the Judge that they should be selling refrigerators to Eskimos. Fortunately most judges can see thru it.

Take it for what it is worth (toilet paper?), but it is my story and I’m sticking to it.:rolleyes:

152

yep, but Kazakhstan is not my idea of “geener” I hear her and her Husband are doing well though. [QUOTE=Chief Seadog;131212]You fill the slot Lynn held before she headed to greener pastures?[/QUOTE]

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[QUOTE=z-drive;131230]Sign me up, from a fellow Maine guy.[/QUOTE]

Yep going to have to give a primer on “the seagoing life” to a bunch of them Does the gang have any suggestions of what to cover?

  1. Dont sit in the Capt’s Chair
  2. Don’t drink our of the Chief’s Coffee cup.
  3. Don’t take LOOOOONNNNNGG HOT showers and use up all the hot water.
  4. Don’t forget to flush
  5. You clog it you clean it.
  6. Keep your hands off the vessel controls.
    any additions?
153

[QUOTE=BMCSRetired;123752]They don’t make the rules idiot-boy, they only enforce and forward to the US Attorney. If the US Attorney don’t prosecute, there is no violation. Instead of blustering like a cranky old guy that life has passed by. Why don’t you take a civics lesson so u actually understand how government works? U think u r a wit becuz u know everything but since u r only half right, that makes u a half wit which is why most of your posts are ignored.

It is so much nicer here when u r at work and can’t get on the internet.

Standing by fore u to start blustering again like Captain Haddock from Tintin…[/QUOTE]

You may want to rephrase that part…’‘if the US Attorney do’t prosecute, there is no violation’’ part. We have a white house and congress violating the law and it’s wrong and it isn’t being prosecuted … shit flows downhill.

154

Oh no, I was looking for you to hook me up with one of those protected species jobs!

155

When we start the hiring process in 2015 for them I’ll holler.

156

I might not mind either. I’ve driven a whale watch boat, attempted to hit on the science types and know one blow whole from the other :wink:

157

Please do. Sounds like an excellent way to get out of town.

158

[QUOTE=z-drive;123717]Yes, I love the fact they have foreign vessels working there and nobody seems to care since its the arctic! Out of sight, out of mind![/QUOTE]
I was reading back and saw this Z. The companies have a waiver to operate in US Waters I believe until 2017. That is the driver to for new builds. that was Recently discussed a page or so back. Really there were and are No available hulls that meet the needs the Foreign vessels do. And that includes Ice [(Class) ah I caught myself in the trap. - insert Capable which are driven by Class Notation as in abs AI ] Tankers. If you would like to discuss further I’d be happy to roll it around again.

159

No, as I’m not really knowledgable on the subject. It just seems as there is sometimes outrage (c.captain) and rightfully so about foreign vessels working in the GOM but on the grand stage of the arctic nobody seems to give a shit. These drilling plans were obviously in the works for so long I’m surprised, well not really, that there aren’t any capable vessels with our flag up there. If there’s money to be made the “bayou mafia” would surely be there, right? And lets face it, are there really any to such spec being built?

160

I think the situation in the Arctic is a bit different from the GoM - at the moment, offshore drilling in Alaska consists of just one oil company maybe drilling one or two wells. Would you build a fleet of expensive vessels just for that project, knowing that the vessels are not economical to operate in other fields in case the oil company decides to quit drilling in the Arctic? Would you hire a fleet of such vessels from a company that has never operated in ice before, at least to the extent required by the project?

I don’t really see a problem in hiring foreign vessels to get a pilot project started, especially when the date when the waiver will expire is known in advance. In the meantime, bring your own people to see what kind of ships they have and how they operate, learn as much as possible, and at the same time design and launch your own ships. Once the time is up for foreign vessels, bring in your own ships and continue from where they left off.

As for icebreaking offshore vessels being built for the American market, I only know of the ships Edison Chouest is working on, but as has been discussed, no specs have been released (except that they are icebreaking ships):

The building program also includes two new icebreakers Arctic service, which are being designed. The boats will mark the fifth and sixth ice-breaking vessels in the company’s fleet, making Chouest the largest designer, builder, owner and operator of ice-breaking vessels in the U.S., the company says. (source)

Even worldwide, there are not that many icebreaking offshore vessels being built. Havyard is building one Vidar Viking-like icebreaking AHTS for the Russian FEMCO, but that’s about it.