Refuting Ombugge's left wing rhetoric

The silly left wing stuff that Omuggee spouts often sounds like he is repeating lines right out Jan’s script on Lilyhammer.

For my fellow Americans, Lilyhammer is a Norwegian TV show. It’s sort of the Sopranos go to Norway and meet the Norwegian Three Stooges. Jan is an extra one of the Three Stooges. Jan’s job is too help new immigrants learn to be sensitive and tolerant Norwegian snowflakes.

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Try watching and reading something else then just Fox News and CNN America.
I can recommend you you BBC World News and The Economist for some unbiased news, both from America and the rest of the world. Al Jazeera is also very informative.

Watching RT America: https://www.rt.com/usa/
And/or CCTV America: http://english.cctv.com/world/Americas/
wouldn’t hurt to get a better understanding of the other side and the big picture.
Myself, I do watch Fox News from time to time, but it is not one of the channels I subscribe to.

As to left leaning; I presume that nearly the whole world is “left leaning” seen from an American standard point. In Europe, even Bernie Sanders would be a right winger.
Even the far right parties in Europe would be left of center in US politics, not to mention the more mainstream parties, like the Tories in UK, or CDU in Germany etc.

I have only seen one episode of Lilyhammer, since it was not shown in Singapore, but it does stereotype both Norwegian and Americans in a fun way.
An uninformed NY gangster planted in a small innocent inland (Mid-west eqv.) town in Norway is a bit of a cultural shock to both parties.
The American audience see stupid Norwegians that doesn’t understand the ways of the big city and speak with a funny accent.
The Norwegian see an ignorant American that speaks loudly and doesn’t know anything about the world outside.

Uh huh… Based on his latest speech and the recently removed “irritant” that are term limits, Xi sounds like he’s all about peace and prosperity for all (all Chinese that is).

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/19/asia/china-xi-jinping-speech-npc-intl/index.html

By the way, where is your disdain for nationalism when it comes to the Chinese expressing it? Where is your disdain for countries not accepting “refugees” when it’s the Chinese (or Japanese or S. Koreans or Russians) not accepting them? How do you justify your hypocrisy?

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It is the 15th Anniversary of the start of the Iraq War today.
I don’t expect much celebration anywhere, but at least The Atlantic have a memorial picture series to commemorate the futility of the war:

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And there is no long term plan for the USA. If there is one it isn’t one I look forward to exeriencing. The previews are bad enough.

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My disdain for nationalism is universal and that there are some of it in China is a given.
But there is a difference between patriotism/national pride and nationalism of the dangerous kind.

I don’t know if you have been in China, but I have, incl. during the Cultural Revolution, when Nationalism was running rampant and reached feverish proportion.
In today’s China I detect a healthy national pride, although there may be pockets of nationalism that I have not experienced.

My attitude towards refugees and asylum seekers are coloured by by experience from working in Bangladesh and witnessing nationalist thugs storming into a Bihari refugee camp with parangs, killing indiscriminately. Also from picking up well over 2000 Vietnamese refugees in the South China Sea in the late 1970’s when Master on a drillship working there.

I am a firm believer in the rights of people in danger to seek refuge or asylum per the UN Refugee Convention of 1951 and the Protocol of 1967 and for all signatories to honour their obligation to do so:

I am angered by seeing the hypocrisy of those rich countries when the problem suddenly is on their doorstep. For years they have been telling others, incl. non-signatories, that they have to accept millions on their soil, while taking a few select one themselves.

BTW; USA used to be one of the countries that took the most, at 95000 a year. It is still a small number relative to the population and relative to the number of refugees in the world though.
(Sweden is the country that has taken most relative to population)

At the same time they pride themselves of contributing a little bit money from all their riches to help.
At the moment there are over 60 mill. refugees in the world. more then any time since WWII. They are mostly in camps in Bangladesh, the Middle East countries and in Africa, with little hope of returning home soon, or to be resettled in rich countries. The rich countries contribute very little towards their upkeep. (Less than USD 2/pers./day)

A few thousand of those have been taken in by OECD countries, while a few hundred thousand has entered Europe and applied for asylum. Most are held in reception centers for years, before they get permission to stay and work.

There are a lot of migrants that is entering illegally. I may have sympathy with their plight, but they do not have any right of protection and should be repatriated a.s.a.p. rather than be kept in suspense for years. Many are living rough on the streets, incl. children.

So no, I’m not a hypocrite and if you have read my earlier posts in this forum you should know that be now. (Assuming you are not one yourself)

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hahahaha holy crap dude THE WAR ON IRAQ WAS NAKED AGGRESSION WHICH IS A WAR CRIME. you had 15 years to learn this basic indisputable fact. The people around the world saying “this is dumb and wrong” were your FRIENDS. The untrustworthy pieces of garbage were the ones lying you into it.

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When US called and invoked Article 5, NATO responded as required by the treaty.
In Libya the US stepped in so as not to be seen as a follower, not a leader.

NATO provided only token support in Afganistan. A few troops, very little money, and not much actual fighting. A very halfhearted effort that was just for show. I believe the NATO effort was called International Security Force or ISF. American solders correctly observed that ISF really stood for. “I Suck at Fighting”. Except for the Brits and the Poles, the rest of NATO was useless.

Obama wanted Europe to lead in Libya. Europe couldn’t do it. No more than Europe could do it in Bosnia. So the US, once again, had to do it for Europe. Now Europe wants the US to lead in the Mideast refugee crisis. Fortunately, we are letting Europe screw that up all on its own.

The Germans have never done anything to support the US. The Germans are always behind selling chemicals and technology to despots opposed to the US.

The French have never supported the US in any meaningful way. They have never been good at anything, except premature surrender. The French also love doing business with despots. Remember the Exocet missle s the French sold to Argentina to be used against the Brits? To hell with France, let them surrender to whomever; good riddance.

The Italians? Talk about tits on a bull.

The Turks have become an Islamic dictatorship more aligned with the Russians, Iran, and Syria. They should be kicked out of NATO. Let Russia and Turkey duke it out by themselves. They deserve each other.

The Brits and the Poles are the only reliable NATO allies for the US. The rest are too unwilling or too small to matter.

You’re… right? about Libya being a war of aggression but you think the lesson was that allies should go in together on stupid wars with highly predictable negative consequences lest “average” citizens in Peoria or Bonn lose faith in other countries’ willingness to murder foreigners. ok

Why have USA fallen behind on immigration?:

Agree wholeheartedly… The sooner we copy China’s policy on immigration, the sooner we can implement their good kind of nationalism. Let’s steal an idea from them for a change.

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There are about 110.000 Americans living and working in China:
https://www.internations.org/china-expats/americans
And they are not alone. Expats of different nationalities are found even in remote parts of China

" WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives. "

Major General Smedley Butler

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So let’s see, 110,000 out of a population of 1.379 billion give a .008% representation of that nationality.

I agree with Bugge that China’s immigration model is one the US should adopt… The sooner the better.

The Chinese model is to attract talents from all over the world to bring in new ideas and bring with them contacts in their country of origin who will benefit China in their efforts to expand their trade and influence to match that of America.

Other than that, the Chinese policy has always been to absorb any invaders or migrants.

BTW; 0.008% is only Americans, but maybe nobody else count in your mind??

China employs as many Americans, and other native English speakers with any BA or BS college degree as they can find to teach English in China. Thousands of them. Huge demand. There are also a lot private schools teaching English and prep courses for American college entrance exams. This is actually a very worthwhile thing for a young person to do for a couple of years.

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If you think the USA’s problem is immigration you need to be more specific.
If immigration stopped tomorrow how would your life be better? Would the GDP or your 401K go up? Has an illegal or legal immigrant taken your job? If so why? Were they better qualified or willing to work for less money? Perhaps time would be better spent investigating the people that hire all these immigrants instead of the immigrants themselves.
The USA has problems but immigration is far from its biggest problem. It is just a diversion .As Lyndon Baines Johnson the 36th president and one of the most masterful politicians in US history said.
“I’ll tell you what’s at the bottom of it,” he said. “If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.”

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Most folks don’t know Smedley Butler. He was a true American hero, his speech “War is a Racket” should be required reading because history does not repeat itself but it does rhyme.

Smedley Darlington Butler (July 30, 1881 – June 21, 1940) was a United States Marine Corps major general, the highest rank authorized at that time, and at the time of his death the most decorated Marine in U.S. history.

By the end of his career, Butler had received 16 medals, five for heroism. He is one of 19 men to receive the Medal of Honor twice, one of three to be awarded both the Marine Corps Brevet Medal (along with Wendell Neville and David Porter) and the Medal of Honor, and the only Marine to be awarded the Brevet Medal and two Medals of Honor, all for separate actions.
In 1933, he became involved in a controversy known as the Business Plot, when he told a congressional committee that a group of wealthy industrialists were planning a military coup to overthrow Franklin D. Roosevelt, with Butler selected to lead a march of veterans to become dictator, similar to other Fascist regimes at that time. The individuals involved all denied the existence of a plot and the media ridiculed the allegations. A final report by a special House of Representatives Committee confirmed some of Butler’s testimony.