Piney Point Graduate Hawsepipers

This question is for NMC and CG please. I’ve been doing my due diligence on this and am about to send in my application from AB-limited to AB-unlimited this month, and in January and heading to Mitags-PMI for upgrading to 3rd. I gathered the information that I think applied to me, including: CFR 46 12.603 and 12.403, the approved training courses list, and the school program
information. I believe, after viewing what information I could, that some of
the training, or seatime as part of the UA to AB-Seafarer Deck program is
allowed a 3 to 1 ratio.

The way Piney Point UA program looks is like this:

phase 1; 65 days of classes, then phase 2 where you spend 90 days aboard a vessel as a unlicensed apprentice, phase 3 you come back to piney point and they credit you 90 days of sea service for a one time use to upgrade to RFPNW. then it’s back out to sea for at least 120 days as a OS (if you pick deck) and when you come back to school for the final phase 5 you upgrade to Able-Seafarer Deck and get your AB-limited ticket too. According to the Coast Guard approved courses list, the Unlicensed Apprentice to AB-Seafarer Deck program satisfies the training requirements for 46 CFR 12.603(3)(ii) -

(3) While qualified as an RFPNW, have seagoing service in the deck department of - (i) Not less than 18 months; or (ii) Not less than 12 months and have completed approved training;

but you still need the sea service requirement of 12 months. my conclusion is that the 4 months spent out to sea for phase four is credited according to 46 CFR 12.403(b)(2) -

(2) Training programs, other than those classified as a school ship,
may be substituted for up to one-third of the required service on deck.
The Coast Guard will determine the service/training ratio for each
program and may allow a maximum of 3 days of deck service credit for each day of instruction.

Anyone got any thoughts on that? They don’t tell you that at Piney Point but if it’s true then it could everyone who graduated since 2013(when they changed the UA program to include AB-Seafarer Deck) about 8 months on the 1080 days.

Generally, if the approval of a program does not specifically say something, it isn’t included. If the program was approved for any portion of the sea service, it will specifically say so and will indicate the quantity of service awarded and the endorsements it can be applied for, e.g. “will receive XX days of service that can be applied towards an endorsement as XXXXX” The reference to the Coast Guard determining the service ratio for each program refers to the approval they give to the program. If it isn’t specifically and expressly stated in the approval of the program, you won’t get the credit.

As far as I am aware, the time at sea in even numbered phases is just credited as sea service, no additional credit is given. If you spend 4 months as an OS, you get credit for 4 months as an OS. This was the case in the past when I was familiar with the program.

If you want an answer from the Coast Guard, this probably isn’t the place to seek it. Also, you are not going to get an evaluation of your specific situation unless you apply for an endorsement. Piney Point might know a thing or two about this program, perhaps you could ask them…?

Which leads me to ask; How does one get the AB-Seafarer Deck and AB-Limited endorsement after completing the program then? The requirements for AB-Seafarer Deck is either 540 days or 12 months and approved training. :frowning: this is why i’m trying to get someone from NMC or CG.

Then call the NMC for Christ sake.

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been there done that; they were not much help

Then why the $%^& did you say, TWICE, you want an answer from NMC…?

Read the last sentence of my original post.


someone has to know there, right? :frowning:

Damn guess you are right. Been trying to avoid that place…

well if anyone is wondering; yes your time at piney point does count. yes, you will need to argue it with the coast guard, or explain to them that the time at piney point is counted as 3 for 1 days, thereby i had 540 days of seatime after graduating, and i could of started taking my tests about 18 months ago… since i thought it was only good for 360.

anyway, if you are a piney point graduate, and you want to hawsepipe; come to MPTusa, they have the best teacher, Andy. He’ll be retired soon, so get him while you can for T-Nav and C-Nav. That’s all he teaches now.

also if you aren’t sure about your seatime from your apprenticeship; send a “record request, complete copy” to the coast guard and you’ll get the application Piney point sent to them on your behalf, which states your seatime as 540 days, qualifying you for the Ab-Limited and Able seafarer deck after you graduate. Take that record, and go ahead and apply for your Ab-Unlimited when you get the seatime.

hope this shows up on google so it helps someone like me who couldn’t get any straight answer and had to figure it our for myself.

also, your representative at piney point can help you with your application, so if you run into problems tell her to contact your evaluator and sort it out.

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That it did, and it was much appreciated! Thank you