# Pecking order?
**URL:** https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/pecking-order/6641
**Category:** Professional Mariner Forum
**Created:** [December 21, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/pecking-order/6641 "2011-12-21T17:04:01Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@cmakin](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/cmakin)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2018, 11:42am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/pecking-order/6641/21 "2018-08-31T11:42:02Z")
> [@Ctony](#):
>
> Some chiefs see themselves as the capt’s contemporary, and in a way they are. However I really doubt most chief engineers would think in an emergency situation that they would assume control of navigation over the mate. We’ve all met and worked with lots of engineers that are completely oblivious to geographical awareness.
Oh, but I have also sailed with a captain or two that were pretty oblivious to geographical awareness. . . do I have a story or two. . . .but I digress. . .
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### Author:  [@cmakin](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/cmakin)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2018, 11:43am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/pecking-order/6641/22 "2018-08-31T11:43:01Z")
> [@Emrobu](#):
>
> If you reverse the question it sounds ridiculous: who’s in charge of the ER if something happens to Chief? Can you imagine the Captain doing the valve clearances on a genny, oily hands and sweating? Its frightening to imagine. I want the guy in charge of navigation and overall vessel safety to have clean hands and air conditioning.
Hehehe, well, controlling the air conditioning is a tool for a passive aggressive AH like me. . . .
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### Author:  [@Kennebec\_Captain](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Kennebec_Captain)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2018, 12:12pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/pecking-order/6641/23 "2018-08-31T12:12:20Z")
There is a difference between command of the ship and the management of the ship. The command lines should be through the traditional hierarchy . Management of the ship should done by the senior officers.
If something was to happen to the chief I would rely upon the 1 A/E for technical advice, same as I rely now upon the chief.
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### Author:  [@Kennebec\_Captain](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Kennebec_Captain)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2018, 12:27pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/pecking-order/6641/24 "2018-08-31T12:27:56Z")
> [@cmakin](#):
>
> Hehehe, well, controlling the air conditioning is a tool for a passive aggressive AH like me. . . .
In my experience that’s the way a lot of ships are run. C/E claims to want nothing to do with command or running the deck but if things don’t go his way he is going to make life aboard unpleasant, wrong approach in my view.
A good chief brings a lot of experience and importantly a different point of view to the table, that’s why it’s important to make sure his voice is heard with regards to shipboard management.
Too bad this stuff isn’t taught.
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### Author:  [@Tugs](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Tugs)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/pecking-order/6641/25 "2018-08-31T16:45:11Z")
This works both ways, there have been way to many times where the ER Crew was up for well over 24 hours but the “Deck” Crew just had to do maintenance right outside of their rooms! Nothing like trying to sleep after a long 24 or so hours on 130 deg heat only to hear someone running a needle gun or deck descaler next to your buck!
While I’ve never “intentionally” cut the AC or Hot Water to a Captain or mate’s SR, one boat that I worked on where the blower (way before AC was common on Tugs) for the Captain’s room did some funny things. His room was cooled by the Intake Blower for the ER which created a venturi effect and would draw fresh “cooler” air in from a cracked Porthole. Somehow this Blower would become a Exhaust Blower and well you can guess the rest.
This Captain had a Hatred of Engineers that went back years before my time and even though I tried to do what I could to please him nothing worked. He went so far to Order the Deckhands NOT to assist me in the ER. The Union Contract allowed this as long as O/T was paid for working out of department. When it came to O/T, I wrote as much as i could and if I guy helped for 1 hour he got 2. I ended up getting fired from that boat. The shame of all this is this guy was one hell of a Boat Handler and I would have gone anywhere with him and not worried about him getting us into trouble.
The joke was on this Captain as once we had the meeting with the Union that Company was told that if 1 boat was working, I had to be on it! Just for the record, I was with that company for a couple of years after all of this and finally left because of massive pay cuts.
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### Author:  [@Tugs](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Tugs)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2018, 4:47pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/pecking-order/6641/26 "2018-08-31T16:47:42Z")
I thought that, at least on a Foreign Flagged Passenger Ship that were Crew with an entire US Crew, the Bartender was next in line for Command if the Captain was disabled???
Some of our younger members might not get this one. LOL
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### Author:  [@Emrobu](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Emrobu)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2018, 5:34pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/pecking-order/6641/27 "2018-08-31T17:34:43Z")
> [@cmakin](#):
>
> Exactly. . . I wouldn’t didn’t want to be involved with cargo operations other than starting and stopping generators for the cargo pumps, repair of pumps and deck equipment (that the \*$%^ mates would screw up). . .
And no matter how badly wrong things go for me, there’s nothing that I can do that will point the keel in the wrong direction or break the ship in half… both of which I gather are possibilities with cargo operations. CCR is another good place to have the air conditioning perfect and use library voices.
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### Author:  [@Steamer](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Steamer)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2018, 6:41pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/pecking-order/6641/28 "2018-08-31T18:41:08Z")
A:
> [@Tugs](#):
>
> I ended up getting fired from that boat.
B:
> [@Tugs](#):
>
> I was with that company for a couple of years after all of this and finally left because of massive pay cuts.
Are we supposed to pick A or B?
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### Author:  [@jdcavo](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/jdcavo)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2018, 6:59pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/pecking-order/6641/29 "2018-08-31T18:59:09Z")
> [@Steamer](#):
>
> A:
>
> > [@Tugs](#):
> >
> > I ended up getting fired from that boat.
>
> B:
>
> > [@Tugs](#):
> >
> > I was with that company for a couple of years after all of this and finally left because of massive pay cuts.
>
> Are we supposed to pick A or B?
Really? You’ve never heard of someone being fired from one boat/ship and immediately put on another?
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### Author:  [@Steamer](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Steamer)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2018, 8:22pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/pecking-order/6641/30 "2018-08-31T20:22:50Z")
> [@jdcavo](#):
>
> Really?
Yeah, must be a little boat thing. Usually those guys get fired from the company not just one boat from what I have seen.
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### Author:  [@jimrr](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/jimrr)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2018, 3:09am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/pecking-order/6641/31 "2018-09-01T03:09:39Z")
I didn’t for a change read all the responses but aboard a ‘regular’ ship on the hi seas, its" cptn, cme, and the rest can fight it out.
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### Author:  [@jimrr](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/jimrr)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2018, 3:11am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/pecking-order/6641/32 "2018-09-01T03:11:24Z")
well, of course the bosun will still handle the deck stuff and the mate will ““plot the course””.
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### Author:  [@tugsailor](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tugsailor)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2018, 8:46am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/pecking-order/6641/33 "2018-09-01T08:46:45Z")
The easiest way to get rid of a guy is to tell the office “give him a try on another boat, but we don’t want him back here again.” Just because a guy did not work out on one boat may not mean that won’t be ok on a different one.
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### Author:  [@Steamer](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Steamer)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2018, 11:46am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/pecking-order/6641/34 "2018-09-01T11:46:51Z")
Fair enough.
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### Author:  [@tugsailor](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tugsailor)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2018, 4:54pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/pecking-order/6641/36 "2018-09-02T16:54:21Z")
On tugboats with a real chief engineer, not a deckineer, the Chief is sometimes one of the oldest and most experienced guys on the boat. Many started out as deckhands. Some chief’s are good navigators and boathandlers with local knowledge. Sometimes the experienced chief has to babysit an inexperienced young mate.
Many tugboat captains and mates have been deckineers themselves, and are often pretty good engineers.
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### Author:  [@saltyseamen](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/saltyseamen)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2018, 6:50pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/pecking-order/6641/37 "2018-09-02T18:50:19Z")
Whoever holds the deck officer’s license is in charge of navigation. I think that is pretty clear with the USCG. I wouldn’t expect the engineer to run the wheehouse just like they shouldn’t expect me to go down in the engine room and tell them what to do. Company policies don’t overrule CFRs.
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### Author:  [@Skylarker9](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Skylarker9)
#### Post date: [September 4, 2018, 3:11am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/pecking-order/6641/38 "2018-09-04T03:11:50Z")
Well there it is. If it was a snake it would have bit me. Thank you so much.
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### Author:  [@cmakin](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/cmakin)
#### Post date: [September 4, 2018, 11:08am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/pecking-order/6641/39 "2018-09-04T11:08:17Z")
> [@Tugs](#):
>
> I thought that, at least on a Foreign Flagged Passenger Ship that were Crew with an entire US Crew, the Bartender was next in line for Command if the Captain was disabled???
>
> Some of our younger members might not get this one. LOL
ISAAC!!!
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### Author:  [@cmakin](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/cmakin)
#### Post date: [September 4, 2018, 11:11am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/pecking-order/6641/40 "2018-09-04T11:11:44Z")
> [@tugsailor](#):
>
> On tugboats with a real chief engineer, not a deckineer, the Chief is sometimes one of the oldest and most experienced guys on the boat. Many started out as deckhands. Some chief’s are good navigators and boathandlers with local knowledge. Sometimes the experienced chief has to babysit an inexperienced young mate.
>
> Many tugboat captains and mates have been deckineers themselves, and are often pretty good engineers.
I was never the oldest on board, and I didn’t start out as a deck hand, nor ever sailed as a deckineer, but I certainly learned my way around deck and even occasionally on the wheel on tugboats. Oftentimes the engineer becomes an extra deckhand/mate with small crews. At least that was my experience. . . .
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### Author:  [@Capt\_Phoenix](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Capt_Phoenix)
#### Post date: [September 4, 2018, 12:57pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/pecking-order/6641/41 "2018-09-04T12:57:25Z")
> [@cappy208](#):
>
> I know that some vessels who typically are uneven time who have one captain who steps up when the senior captain goes home
That’s usually the “lead captain” vs the “relief captain”. I’ve only heard “senior captain” used in modern times in reference to the guy that has been master of a specific vessel longest (in an equal time rotation) to designate he has slightly more authority about things done to the boat (modifications, alterations, and such) than the other master.
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