Optimal schedule to turn in 3rd mate package?

Professional Mariner Forum
1

Getting close enough to start scheming a path to the ever coveted approval to test letter.

My question would concern the last couple of months of scrambling to meet seatime, STCW, and the requirement of nourishment and shelter. As I close in on my goal I will meet my seatime requirement first, then the plan is to take a hitch off and knock out as many of the STCW classes as I can afford. I will definitely not get them all and that leads to my dilemma as I hope to be as “marketable” as possible to jump into a training mates position with my company as soon as possible.

Should I wait until I have the total package complete to submit? I was thinking I would send in my package and while it was making its way thru the nimble and all knowing NMC’s braintrust (my 28 on), I would knockout the last class or two on my next off time (14 off) and have that ready to send in once they sent a letter back stating what I was missing (next 28 on), and then quickly schedule my test date for the following off time (14 off).

I work a 28/14 hitch so any slip ups cost me a lot of time/money. Does anyone know if the package will progress past the REC and on to the NMC PQEB if incomplete? Could it be as simple as they send me a letter stating I am missing a, b, and c; I get off my hitch, knock out a,b,c and email it in to the PQEB and schedule my test for 21 days later?

Ok, then there is the I wanna get a training mate position ASAP question. I read on previous post that GMDSS is required by 2 officers, but a training mate or 3rd wheel would not be required to possess it as long as the 2 watches are covered. If I had to skip a class to continue eating and such, wouldn’t the GMDSS be the prime one vs. ARPA? Even though both are optional, my understanding is that I would not even be allowed to serve as an OICNW on a vessel with ARPA, extra hand, or not.

Working the GOM on supply boats, I’m on a 280 now and it is not so much a factor that I want to stay on the larger boats, but it is a money issue. I have a ton invested and would like to start earning a return as soon as I can. I don’t care if they send me to and old, dinged up 180 to let me learn some boat handling skills, I’m just trying to earn my money back and get some experience, by being able to work on anything and everything they can put me on, not pump up my ego.

2

Well all I will say is if you dot all your i’s and cross all your t’s, you will have a better experience and get through it quicker. If you start sending incomplete stuff in then it will get shuffled around so much it will make your head spin. JMO

3

Even if your plan worked, I think you are going to be in for some disappointment when your plan does not come together as quickly as one might think. That has been my experience when trying to pull a fast one. I similarly sent an application in and the one certificate that was missing was not even caught, but there were other things that I had not anticipated. It took me a little longer than I had planned to test. I was frustrated, but it gave me extra time to study for the test. Another thing to consider is once you get the license you may not be immediately placed into a training mate’s position on any vessel. Especially right now. You may deck for many months after getting the license in hand. That is a good attitude to have though, about not caring which vessel they send you to. I know some guys that would turn their nose up at the smaller vessels. The thing is they all pay pretty much the same. What I am trying to say is, expect delays and disappointments with your application (especially since it is incomplete) and if your plan works out then you will be pleasantly surprised.

4

I just don’t get it.

You want to be a mate and THEN learn boat handling?
Why not learn as a deckhand?

I had over 4000 days at sea before I even applied for a z-card (and I didn’t even know about 12 hour days counting as 1.5 days).
Learn the job, THEN go for the promotion makes more sense to me.
“Hey, I’m ready to be a Mate” not “I got my ticket, will you teach me to be a mate?”

It seems like an awful lot of threads on here are from people trying to shortcut the knowledge base that being a good seaman takes years and years and years to build up.

Put it another way, do you want to sail with a guy that has 1 more day than the minimum required and just got out of school yesterday?
Are you going to sleep soundly when that guy is on watch?

Everybody wants to move up, but your shipmates lives depend on you being experienced.

Like I said, I just don’t get it.

5

I put in my application for 3rd mate 2 months ago just to see where I was on seatime and such, I am letting that one slide past the 90 days and will be putting in another application in march with the missing information,For me this was the way to go, I lost 180 days over 200 ton due to not being 8 hour days, also by doing it this way i was able to get the new medical info they needed, as I have passed medical next application will move along a little faster, i know that you can request an extension after the 90 days,if youa re on a 280 I would be more concerned about arpa that gmdss

6

[QUOTE=Ea$y Money;45135]Getting close enough to start scheming a path to the ever coveted approval to test letter.

My question would concern the last couple of months of scrambling to meet seatime, STCW, and the requirement of nourishment and shelter. As I close in on my goal I will meet my seatime requirement first, then the plan is to take a hitch off and knock out as many of the STCW classes as I can afford. I will definitely not get them all and that leads to my dilemma as I hope to be as “marketable” as possible to jump into a training mates position with my company as soon as possible.

Should I wait until I have the total package complete to submit? I was thinking I would send in my package and while it was making its way thru the nimble and all knowing NMC’s braintrust (my 28 on), I would knockout the last class or two on my next off time (14 off) and have that ready to send in once they sent a letter back stating what I was missing (next 28 on), and then quickly schedule my test date for the following off time (14 off).

I work a 28/14 hitch so any slip ups cost me a lot of time/money. Does anyone know if the package will progress past the REC and on to the NMC PQEB if incomplete? Could it be as simple as they send me a letter stating I am missing a, b, and c; I get off my hitch, knock out a,b,c and email it in to the PQEB and schedule my test for 21 days later?

Ok, then there is the I wanna get a training mate position ASAP question. I read on previous post that GMDSS is required by 2 officers, but a training mate or 3rd wheel would not be required to possess it as long as the 2 watches are covered. If I had to skip a class to continue eating and such, wouldn’t the GMDSS be the prime one vs. ARPA? Even though both are optional, my understanding is that I would not even be allowed to serve as an OICNW on a vessel with ARPA, extra hand, or not.

Working the GOM on supply boats, I’m on a 280 now and it is not so much a factor that I want to stay on the larger boats, but it is a money issue. I have a ton invested and would like to start earning a return as soon as I can. I don’t care if they send me to and old, dinged up 180 to let me learn some boat handling skills, I’m just trying to earn my money back and get some experience, by being able to work on anything and everything they can put me on, not pump up my ego.[/QUOTE]

I can tell you from experience that you are going about it all wrong, First, don’t submit an application that you know isn’t complete, but why are you applying for a 3rd Mate anyway? If you are planning on working on OSV’s, there are better ways to proceed in that industry by going the OSV licensing route. An upper level license will fall into place later down the road with less heart ache. Most peoples goals are to get into the money first then upgrade later, not run out of money trying to get a license that you don’t necessarily need.

7

[QUOTE=anchorman;45143]I can tell you from experience that you are going about it all wrong, First, don’t submit an application that you know isn’t complete, but why are you applying for a 3rd Mate anyway? If you are planning on working on OSV’s, there are better ways to proceed in that industry by going the OSV licensing route. An upper level license will fall into place later down the road with less heart ache. Most peoples goals are to get into the money first then upgrade later, not run out of money trying to get a license that you don’t necessarily need.[/QUOTE]

That is good advice.

8

I get all the wheel time I can, stay on after my watch, work over, etc. But 4000 more days of cleaning toilets, painting, and scrubbing are not going to make me a better boat handler. That’s why I want a training mates spot, so I can be in the wheelhouse and learn under someone.

As for the 3rd mate vs. OSV; my company doesn’t have an OSV program so my options as I understand them are 3rd, 1600 ton. And if the only difference is having the tonnage to get the 3rd then what is the difference? Am I missing something? All the STCW classes are the same except maybe BRM. The only thing different is the test is harder for 3rd vs. 1600?

I do realize that the likelihood of be placed in a training mate spot before the ink is dry are slim but I have always thought it’s better to have it and not need it than miss an opportunity. Stuff happens, don’t want opportunity to knock and me be answering the door in my underwear. The other thought about getting a 3rd vs. 1600 is the job market ain’t the strongest and if worse comes to worse I need to keep working. OSV’s or whatever, wherever. Be a bitch to get my license and then get laid off and be stuck wishing.

I will wait to get the total package together. Just get excited, been a long road away from the family for work and school, anxious to get that ticket and have something to show for it.

Thanks for all the input. I’ll keep you posted.

9

[QUOTE=Ea$y Money;45146]I get all the wheel time I can, stay on after my watch, work over, etc. But 4000 more days of cleaning toilets, painting, and scrubbing are not going to make me a better boat handler. That’s why I want a training mates spot, so I can be in the wheelhouse and learn under someone.

As for the 3rd mate vs. OSV; my company doesn’t have an OSV program so my options as I understand them are 3rd, 1600 ton. And if the only difference is having the tonnage to get the 3rd then what is the difference? Am I missing something? All the STCW classes are the same except maybe BRM. The only thing different is the test is harder for 3rd vs. 1600?

I do realize that the likelihood of be placed in a training mate spot before the ink is dry are slim but I have always thought it’s better to have it and not need it than miss an opportunity. Stuff happens, don’t want opportunity to knock and me be answering the door in my underwear. The other thought about getting a 3rd vs. 1600 is the job market ain’t the strongest and if worse comes to worse I need to keep working. OSV’s or whatever, wherever. Be a bitch to get my license and then get laid off and be stuck wishing.

I will wait to get the total package together. Just get excited, been a long road away from the family for work and school, anxious to get that ticket and have something to show for it.

Thanks for all the input. I’ll keep you posted.[/QUOTE]

I guess you can do what you want to do. I can give you an example. Over the last 6 months, I’ve had (3) AB’s getting their licenses. (2) already had 100 ton Masters. The first guy got his Mate OSV license - started making decent money. The second one was smarter - he did what I told him - he went straight to his 500 ton Master OSV - using 100 ton Master time. He’s making really good money on anchor boats while working on a 6,000 ton endorsement, more than the first guy. The first guy is still a Mate - making less, but he’s STILL set on getting his 3rd. Never mind the fact that he’s losing money in the mean time. Now the third guy, he’s the one going straight to 3rd. He paid a shit ton of money for the PMI AB to Mate program. He’s still paying for that, and he started before the other two guys - never mind the fact that he’s testing a year after the other two guys - losing money and valuable sea time while holding a license.
If you want to go to 3rd, get off of the OSVs right now…and get on with a company that will not only use the license, but pay for the school. The OSV license is not a company owned program. You can get assessment books from OMSA and apply with the Coast Guard. You just need to have someone take a 1-day assessment course to be approved to assess. I did that for my guys - not sure if your Captain will do that for you . The large OSV program is different - with specific companies. If there was a need for that program, then your company would have it.
Just remember a few things. If you go straight to 3rd, 1/2 of your sea time has to be on vessels over 1600 tons - all has to be over 200 tons. The alternative is to hold a 1600 ton Master for a year, if you don’t have unlimited sea time - to go to 3rd without tonnage restrictions.

10

Ea$y-

I think my earlier post was probably mis-directed.
It was the word “scheming” that got my hackles up.
If you had used “planning” instead, I would have read it differently.

I stand by the sentiment though.
It takes a long time to learn and earn the responsibility of command.
Get any and all licenses and endorsements as you get the time in.
Move up in position when you know you are ready.

Seeking a “training mate” position seems reasonable.
As Dirty Harry said: " A man’s got to know his limitations".

Best of luck to you.

11

Thanks Seadog, I was just being glib with the wording there. I do know that a license is just a license to learn. I’m not planning to jump past the most important part.

12

[QUOTE=seadog!;45139] I had over 4000 days at sea before I even applied for a z-card (and I didn’t even know about 12 hour days counting as 1.5 days).[/QUOTE]

You must be a slow learner.

13

[QUOTE=Capt. Lee;45179]You must be a slow learner.[/QUOTE]

Maybe Z-cards were not invented yet.

14

[QUOTE=anchorman;45180]Maybe Z-cards were not invented yet.[/QUOTE]

Just to be fair to us old guys, the CG never fully enforced the Z-card requirement for uninspected vessels, over 100T in domestic oilfield service until '69 and '70. There was no 1.5 for 1 credit until around '75. In '72, I had to show 12 months with discharges or 15 months with seatime letter for my AB 12 Month ticket. There were a few other caviats between the inland service tugs and offshore service tugs less than 300T. A much simpler time??

15

There are an awful lot of ways to make (or take) your living at sea.

When I did apply, I got an AB, Master, and Chief’s ticket all in one shot.

Those 4000+ days were from just one boat. I didn’t even turn in anything from all the others.

I’m still out here, so maybe I’ll never learn.