Offshore slash and burn tactics



I had a really good relief & he told me on crew change that if I closed the air valves to the starters on the Caterpillar C-280’s the engines would shut down. I thought that hard to believe but I didn’t argue with him nor did I call him an idiot after he left.[/QUOTE]
This is different because this is one engineer passing on important information to another engineer about something they had discovered on crew change. In my case, this was just some idiot talking out if his ass on the fly and trying to sound smart.

I wonder if that is the case for all c280’s…or just that one due to something else being tied into it
after the air valve?


[QUOTE=cajaya;164996]It said it on the automation, and on each engine. If you had the slightest clue about the system I am referring to you would know what I’m talking about. Evidently, you don’t.

You are only reaffirming my thoughts on some of the osv engineers. Let me guess, you have a dde 4000?[/QUOTE]

C/E Unlimited…


[QUOTE=gulf_engineer;165001]C/E Unlimited…[/QUOTE]

Well then, you must have gotten that from a cracker jack box!


Maybe. I was led to believe it was because of my understanding of engineering. But you’re probably right, Cracker Jack box it is.


Slash and burn tactics…

You can’t necessarily blame the vessel owner/operators. This industry is slash and burn. It’s an industry with very smart people, but a stupid industry in terms of long term thinking on contracts. The O&G companies can plan long term in terms of field development but nothing else, it seems.

Instead of going to the rig owners, vessel owners, etc and coming to a mutually beneficial plan for, let’s say 10 years, they sign on for 3-5 year contracts at a high day rate. Over that period, costs go up, production goes down. Happens everytime. What happens? O&G companies slash costs, lay people off and cut contracts. All the while production is continuing to drop. During this time, both the suppliers and laid off employees are saying, “Just wait until the uptick, I’m going to stick it to them.” Next thing you know, the market rebounds, it’s busy and the cycle of stupidity starts over again.

I personally know senior level people at some of the OSV companies who have said in the past, “Just wait until the downturn is over, we’re going to stick it to them (O&G companies)”.

Instead of trying to pay a vessel off ASAP and sticking clients with a high price, why not amortize it over a bit longer time and bring the rate down. Same goes with any company in this industry.


[QUOTE=gulf_engineer;165001]C/E Unlimited…[/QUOTE] Starting batteries undergo a lot of stresses, hooking up other things such as engine control, e shut offs, fuel supply would be a -safety- issue. Which is why it would not be designed that way in a commercial application. Just like it is bad practice to disconnect and load test starting batteries on a running engine, it is bad practice to wire up ECM and other things to them. It is also bad practice to leave such a set up in place, consider ing the safety issues if it is a larger commercial vessel. Separate batteries would be used for this. The guy also had to be explained by someone that the reason the hydraulic system wasn’t working was because there was no hydraulic oil in the tank. There is just no covering it up. I can see what you mean as having batteries as a backup source, but they usually wouldn’t be the same batteries used for starting. They might be right next to them though.


Hahahaha holy crap. You just don’t quit!


[QUOTE=Yeasty McFlaps;165083]Hahahaha holy crap. You just don’t quit![/QUOTE]

I agree…this discussion has run its course and this thread needs to die.


[QUOTE=c.captain;165086]I agree…this discussion has run its course and this thread needs to die.[/QUOTE]

Kinda like some of your threads, Scooter.


[QUOTE=c.captain;164827][QUOTE=Ctony;164825]Ok C.Captain and/or mz cajaya, I have a question…

Please tell all of us where we should seek employment. NOT on OSVs in the GOM is a given, where does a career-minded individual go for personal satisfaction, continued growth and advancement, and job security?/QUOTE]

easy…towing with a reputable company although you might have to do time with a gyppo operator long enough to build experience.

towing is here to stay through thick and thin[/QUOTE]

C.Capee I agree with that, tugs/towing are here to stay for sure. With that being said, why do you think Hornbeck sold the tug/barges to Genesis, other than the 230 million reasons. Seems like you would want a diversified portfolio instead of putting all your boats in one port.


You would think that Jeaux and in Hos’s case the board would have good reason to do it, reasons beyond us. But I think they would love to still have that revenue with small overhead


[QUOTE=AHTS Master;165089]Kinda like some of your threads, Scooter.[/QUOTE]

It was his thread. It got hijacked, much to his chagrin, when super cheng started advertising her blog.


Damn, its too bad I can’t change my username to that. Maybe I will contact John…


On a another note, back to c.captain’s original topic about unions. I can see why companies wouldn’t want unions but I also think they can learn something from them, and in [I]some[/I] instances I think they [I]can[/I] be better for the worker. Like the crowley inland tugs are SIU apparently but the union doesn’t really get involved in anything (not that I like SIU). Some union companies have a very loose contract. Like they can do whatever they want basically, it leaves a lot open…but the person can still be in a union have have benefits such as a pension. Most people I have worked with like the idea of having a pension. Considering that Jeaux Bawss likes to have iron fisted control over his workers, doesn’t encourage them to get bigger licenses so that can have more options, and doesn’t really like them to know how to do anything. The right thing to do at least is let people have the option of having a pension.
I looked at one contract recently when I was dabbling about going back to union life and it didn’t really say much, it just had the pay rate with was from $400-$1000, and the schedule. And everything else was pretty much flexible. It was a small company but the company didn’t really have to pay into the pension, it was an option for the company to, or for the workers to pay in to themselves.

Also, I found it interesting that some union contracted companies that paid significantly higher than others would not even consider hiring someone as a permanent chief unlimited or 1st position unless they had taken certain courses. I thought that was interesting. I know that a lot of people are anti education and training in certain areas, but in some circumstances there are some things you just can’t learn from from OJT. And there are some things that might be important to know.


Damm what a mess. I was hoping by july this would have blown over and everybody would be back to work. Instead it looks like they have continued to slash and burn. I hope this gets better soon for yall.


Sorry about the late reply, Just got time to catch up. I’ve never worked on a vessel that had C-280s or 3600s. My question is , If you lost air pressure, you would loose propulsion ? Just like to know if I ever work on a vessel that has that type of shut down system. I understand that would not likely happen. But “Never say Never”



For the vessel I was working on with the C280’s, lack of air pressure would mean electronic shutting down of both main engines resulting in lose of both shaft generators. The emergency stop damper to the turbo inlets shared the same air supply as the starting solenoid. When air pressure was low, we would get an alarm stating, “Low Starting Air Pressure”, then “Low Operating Air Pressure” & then the engines would stop with “Emergency Stop Failure” alarm. So if both ships air compressors failed, only the auxiliary generators & E-Gen would start to provide power to the vessel.

Obviously we made contingency plans of what to do in case of both air compressor failure that included running the engines in E-Mode or running a crossover air pipe from the dry bulk compressor system to the ships air system. After a year of requesting it we received a portable air compressor with a small tank. Once during a 10 day tow the the dipper stick on one of the air compressors crank shaft flung off causing the compressor bearing to lock up due to lack of lubrication. The captain & I felt a lot better with that small compressor on board.


I see, they where gens, Good idea on the fail safe mode, Or good back up plan.One thing I’ve learned out here, If it could happen, It will. Thanks for the info.


[QUOTE=CETOOT70;165228]I see, they where gens, Good idea on the fail safe mode, Or good back up plan.One thing I’ve learned out here, If it could happen, It will. Thanks for the info.[/QUOTE]

The C280’s were the main propulsion with 1 shaft generator connected into each reduction gear. So no air pressure meant the vessel was just a floating cork on small auxially generators waiting to be towed to ashore.


The C-280-8’s that I worked with for years were not shutdown by low air pressure. Our arrangement was also set up with shaft gens PTO’d off the reduction gear as well. Over the years we would trace an occasional air leak to one of the air hoses on the starter. If the engines were running we would close the valve and secure the air to the engine until we could repair the leak. We would get the low air alarm for that engine but all of the shutdowns were electronic so the engine kept on running… Until you shut it down… or disconnected the batteries.