# Navy Reverting DDGs Back to Physical Throttles, After Fleet Rejects Touchscreen Controls **URL:** \ **Category:** Maritime News\ **Created:** [August 11, 2019, 11:56pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/navy-reverting-ddgs-back-to-physical-throttles-after-fleet-rejects-touchscreen-controls/52367 "2019-08-11T23:56:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Earl\_Boebert1](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/earl_boebert1/32/116_2.png) [@Earl\_Boebert1](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Earl_Boebert1)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 9:44pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/navy-reverting-ddgs-back-to-physical-throttles-after-fleet-rejects-touchscreen-controls/52367/22 "2019-08-13T21:44:18Z")
Exactly. I’ve been arguing against touchscreen controls for decades. The problem is this: If I am under stress and need to send an order to the engine room (say), there is no question how I do it with a traditional telegraph. If I am under stress and have to send an order and I’m stuck with a touchscreen, I have to remember how one of possibly many menus sends the order, how to activate the menu, how the menu works, and be able to hit a (at most) 1 cm x 1 cm spot with my finger, and then maintain my attention on the screen to make sure the input was accepted by the system. The disadvantage of the touchscreen approach is most visible in cars with touchscreen controls for all the stuff that used to be controlled with knobs and switches. You just want to turn down the volume on the radio and your eyes are off the road and one hand is off the wheel for seconds while you poke around in the damn screen. Cheers, Earl ---
**Author:** ![Lee\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Lee\_Shore](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Lee_Shore)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 10:14pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/navy-reverting-ddgs-back-to-physical-throttles-after-fleet-rejects-touchscreen-controls/52367/23 "2019-08-13T22:14:32Z")
Important point. If you know about where the knob or switch is, you can manipulate it without looking at it whereas a screen demands that you shift your visual focus to it. ---
**Author:** ![Lee\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Lee\_Shore](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Lee_Shore)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 9:58am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/navy-reverting-ddgs-back-to-physical-throttles-after-fleet-rejects-touchscreen-controls/52367/24 "2019-08-14T09:58:32Z")
There’s always voice commands but we know how well they work. Imagine the hilarity on the bridge of a warship with the babbling of 20 voices reporting and repeating orders. ---
**Author:** ![KPChief](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/kpchief/32/26_2.png) [@KPChief](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/KPChief)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 10:14am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/navy-reverting-ddgs-back-to-physical-throttles-after-fleet-rejects-touchscreen-controls/52367/25 "2019-08-14T10:14:06Z")
Yeah like when Ensign Schmedly says to Seaman Flutter “hard night flutter?” and the ship takes off across the traffic lane. ---
**Author:** ![powerabout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/43a26b/32.png) [@powerabout](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/powerabout)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 10:15am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/navy-reverting-ddgs-back-to-physical-throttles-after-fleet-rejects-touchscreen-controls/52367/26 "2019-08-14T10:15:39Z")
single press, very easy to accidentally press it double press, easy to not be sure what you have done. ---
**Author:** ![Kennebec\_Captain](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/kennebec_captain/32/13_2.png) [@Kennebec\_Captain](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Kennebec_Captain)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 10:26am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/navy-reverting-ddgs-back-to-physical-throttles-after-fleet-rejects-touchscreen-controls/52367/27 "2019-08-14T10:26:26Z")
This strikes me as odd: > Galinis said that bridge design is something that shipbuilders have a lot of say in, as it’s not covered by any particular specification that the Navy requires builders to follow. This seems to be saying the Navy lets builders just design whatever they want and the navy will accept it. The wheel and throttle are critical areas. I would have thought the Navy would have at least general guidelines. Having a touch screen for a initial set-up menu might make sense in some cases but the operation of the wheel and throttle should be simple and obvious. Also there should be a repeater where other bridge crew team members can see the setting (rudder angle indicator and EOT repeater) ---
**Author:** ![Dutchie](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/dutchie/32/170_2.png) [@Dutchie](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Dutchie)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 10:43am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/navy-reverting-ddgs-back-to-physical-throttles-after-fleet-rejects-touchscreen-controls/52367/28 "2019-08-14T10:43:43Z")
> [@Earl\_Boebert1](#): > > and be able to hit a (at most) 1 cm x 1 cm spot with my finger Another problem is bad weather, a ship is not a stationary object. Try to do that with the big paw and sausage fingers of some captains which were made to handle a solidly built telegraph but not some sort of household appliance. ![Doodle_2019-08-14T10_37_51Z](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/gcaptain_maritime_forum/original/2X/a/a136a0c52fa8d28a70a1bf8661c0d0dfe009cc5f.jpeg) Starboard EOT of Shell tanker Ondina. ---
**Author:** ![Kennebec\_Captain](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/kennebec_captain/32/13_2.png) [@Kennebec\_Captain](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Kennebec_Captain)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 11:16am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/navy-reverting-ddgs-back-to-physical-throttles-after-fleet-rejects-touchscreen-controls/52367/29 "2019-08-14T11:16:06Z")
I agree in principle that the operation of the primary controls should be intuitive but by appearance the bridge of a Navy ship seems to be a bit more complicated than that old tanker. ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/gcaptain_maritime_forum/original/2X/7/7986e32287c7683454d97afe089beee44ba895e8.jpeg) Seaman Joseph Brown mans an older verison of helm controls on the bridge of USS Donald Cook (DDG-75) on July 25, 2019. US Navy Photo ---
**Author:** ![Dutchie](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/dutchie/32/170_2.png) [@Dutchie](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Dutchie)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 12:29pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/navy-reverting-ddgs-back-to-physical-throttles-after-fleet-rejects-touchscreen-controls/52367/30 "2019-08-14T12:29:12Z")
> [@Kennebec\_Captain](#): > > the bridge of a Navy ship seems to be a bit more complicated than that old tanker. No doubts about that although the helm and telegraph functions are identical. Compared to that navy bridge it is some kind of an empty ball room. ---
**Author:** ![Kennebec\_Captain](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/kennebec_captain/32/13_2.png) [@Kennebec\_Captain](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Kennebec_Captain)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 12:43pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/navy-reverting-ddgs-back-to-physical-throttles-after-fleet-rejects-touchscreen-controls/52367/31 "2019-08-14T12:43:09Z")
> [@Dutchie](#): > > although the helm and telegraph functions are identical. Not quite. The incident started when the control station for the engines was shifted from the helm to the lee helm. Here is from the NTSB: > Transfer of Thrust Control. The transfer of thrust control between stations on the bridge, such as between the helm station and lee helm station, was normally accomplished via a “coordinated” procedure.6 During a coordinated station transfer, menus on the GUI display allowed the operator at the station relinquishing control of thrust to offer control—one shaft at a time—to another station. The station operator relinquishing control selected the gaining station in the menu for the first shaft being offered and then verified the selection. This caused an indicator to blink on the GUI display at both stations. The gaining station > operator then acknowledged and verified the transfer of control via the GUI display at his station. > After these actions were completed, the indicators at both stations would stop blinking. The > transfer process was then repeated for the second shaft. > A station operator wishing to gain control could also request control via a similar procedure. To request thrust control from another station, the process stated above was reversed. > The procedure for a coordinated thrust transfer between bridge stations was provided in the IBNS technical manual, but it was not provided in the operating procedures manual, known as the Engineering Operational Sequencing System (EOSS), held on station at the SCC and ASU. At sea the throttle and helm are operated by a single person. When more maneuvering is anticipated the helm and throttle are split between two crew members. One issue was the captain delayed the split between stations until the ship was already in heavy traffic. The delay was said to be so the crew could get more rest. ---
**Author:** ![Dutchie](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/dutchie/32/170_2.png) [@Dutchie](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Dutchie)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 1:56pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/navy-reverting-ddgs-back-to-physical-throttles-after-fleet-rejects-touchscreen-controls/52367/32 "2019-08-14T13:56:09Z")
> [@Kennebec\_Captain](#): > > The delay was said to be so the crew could get more rest. Nice, but he had set the wrong priorities then. The steering wheel of the USS Donald Cook has for me about the right dimension. The wheel on the drawing is too small for my liking, but maybe that is personal. A small wheel requires smaller movements and thus more precisely steering which for me is not an intuitive situation. ![IMG_4935](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/gcaptain_maritime_forum/original/2X/8/841776e531daefd10a243e3d38c090df48903296.png) ---
**Author:** ![jbtam99](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/jbtam99/32/65499_2.png) [@jbtam99](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/jbtam99)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 8:25pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/navy-reverting-ddgs-back-to-physical-throttles-after-fleet-rejects-touchscreen-controls/52367/33 "2019-08-14T20:25:04Z")
> [@Dutchie](#): > > The wheel on the drawing is too small for my liking You think that one is small, you should see the one Ulstein puts on the Island Offshore boats. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/capt_phoenix/32/281_2.png) [@Capt\_Phoenix](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Capt_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 10:51pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/navy-reverting-ddgs-back-to-physical-throttles-after-fleet-rejects-touchscreen-controls/52367/34 "2019-08-14T22:51:12Z")
> [@Earl\_Boebert1](#): > > The disadvantage of the touchscreen approach is most visible in cars with touchscreen controls for all the stuff that used to be controlled with knobs and switches. You just want to turn down the volume on the radio and your eyes are off the road and one hand is off the wheel for seconds while you poke around in the damn screen. That’s why they have steering wheel buttons for volume and radio station changing. ---
**Author:** ![Hogsnort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ba8739/32.png) [@Hogsnort](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Hogsnort)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 1:00am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/navy-reverting-ddgs-back-to-physical-throttles-after-fleet-rejects-touchscreen-controls/52367/36 "2019-08-15T01:00:51Z")
One class of vessel I sailed in the bridge wing controls the bow thruster had a tiller like control. Put the lever fore and aft for stop or move it port or starboard for the desired direction of thrust . You dint need to look at it and could focus on the ships movement. Another vessel had 7 buttons with the middle button for stop. The button in use was illuminated but sufficiently to see it in bright sunshine without cupping both hands around the display to see. Meanwhile. ---
**Author:** ![Lee\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Lee\_Shore](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Lee_Shore)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 1:30am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/navy-reverting-ddgs-back-to-physical-throttles-after-fleet-rejects-touchscreen-controls/52367/37 "2019-08-15T01:30:53Z")
Making changes to adapt to a new technology without thoroughly appreciating the repercussions in this case backfired. Old adage: just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Boebert1](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/earl_boebert1/32/116_2.png) [@Earl\_Boebert1](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Earl_Boebert1)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 3:02am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/navy-reverting-ddgs-back-to-physical-throttles-after-fleet-rejects-touchscreen-controls/52367/38 "2019-08-15T03:02:25Z")
> [@Capt\_Phoenix](#): > > That’s why they have steering wheel buttons for volume and radio station changing. Yeah, you’re right, bad example. Although I don’t think they’re universal or a standard, but I could be wrong. Should have used air conditioning. Cheers, Earl ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/capt_phoenix/32/281_2.png) [@Capt\_Phoenix](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Capt_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 9:13am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/navy-reverting-ddgs-back-to-physical-throttles-after-fleet-rejects-touchscreen-controls/52367/39 "2019-08-15T09:13:47Z")
> [@Earl\_Boebert1](#): > > bad example Not really. It’s just that car manufacturers found a way around the problem whereas the US Navy didn’t realize a problem could exist. ---
**Author:** ![Steamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Steamer](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Steamer)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 12:20pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/navy-reverting-ddgs-back-to-physical-throttles-after-fleet-rejects-touchscreen-controls/52367/40 "2019-08-15T12:20:38Z")
> [@Lee\_Shore](#): > > Making changes to adapt to a new technology without thoroughly appreciating the repercussions in this case backfired. Old adage: just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should. Yep … [Op-Ed: Historically High Pentagon Spending Creates a Hollow Force](https://maritime-executive.com/editorials/op-ed-historically-high-pentagon-spending-creates-a-hollow-force) ---
**Author:** ![whizbang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c5a1d2/32.png) [@whizbang](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/whizbang)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 3:04pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/navy-reverting-ddgs-back-to-physical-throttles-after-fleet-rejects-touchscreen-controls/52367/41 "2019-08-15T15:04:56Z")
Touchscreens are better for engine stuff, they’re great for displays and mimics but not great for stuff you have to do in real time. Pumping dry bulk with one was always hairy when you needed more purge air in a hurry, watching a bunch of engine temps at once or plotting a trend is great. ---
**Author:** ![Ffinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Ffinn](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Ffinn)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 4:56pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/navy-reverting-ddgs-back-to-physical-throttles-after-fleet-rejects-touchscreen-controls/52367/42 "2019-08-15T16:56:41Z")
SOLAS requirement but rarely used, superseded by UHF/ VHF personal radios -far superior with the advantage of broadcast versus point to point comms. [Previous page](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/navy-reverting-ddgs-back-to-physical-throttles-after-fleet-rejects-touchscreen-controls/52367.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/navy-reverting-ddgs-back-to-physical-throttles-after-fleet-rejects-touchscreen-controls/52367.md?page=3)