# MOT Oceans, add Western Rivers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Professional Mariner Forum\ **Created:** [October 3, 2015, 12:48am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/mot-oceans-add-western-rivers/15332 "2015-10-03T00:48:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![drew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b19c9b/32.png) [@drew](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/drew)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 12:52pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/mot-oceans-add-western-rivers/15332/21 "2016-01-19T12:52:53Z")
[QUOTE=jdcavo;177394]If you were getting an original towing license you would test at Apprentice Mate and no test for that route when you go to Mate and Master. But in your case, you are going dirtectly to Mate, but you still have to test. The test is titled “Apprentice Mate” but it’s the same one that would apply in your case.[/QUOTE] Thank you for the reply. That is consistent with what the NMC told me today. It was not quite so clear in the letter, but now I get it. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/capt_phoenix/32/281_2.png) [@Capt\_Phoenix](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Capt_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 12:58pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/mot-oceans-add-western-rivers/15332/22 "2016-01-19T12:58:52Z")
[QUOTE=jdcavo;177394]If you were getting an original towing license you would test at Apprentice Mate and no test for that route when you go to Mate and Master. But in your case, you are going dirtectly to Mate, but you still have to test. The test is titled “Apprentice Mate” but it’s the same one that would apply in your case.[/QUOTE] I tried explaining that to him but he said the approval to test letter said he applied for apprentice mate. With him not posting the letter or the exact text I had to take his word for what the letter said. ---
**Author:** ![drew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b19c9b/32.png) [@drew](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/drew)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 1:11pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/mot-oceans-add-western-rivers/15332/23 "2016-01-19T13:11:14Z")
[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;177404]I tried explaining that to him but he said the approval to test letter said he applied for apprentice mate. With him not posting the letter or the exact text I had to take his word for what the letter said.[/QUOTE] You did try. And you were right,but the exact text is "this is in response to your application which we received for the following merchant Mariner credential(s): domestic endorsement apprentice mate (Steersman) NC & WR. After a comprehensive evaluation, your application for the above mmc (s) is approved. Prior to issuance,you will be required to pass the following examinations: module… ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/capt_phoenix/32/281_2.png) [@Capt\_Phoenix](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Capt_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 1:36pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/mot-oceans-add-western-rivers/15332/24 "2016-01-19T13:36:59Z")
[QUOTE=drew;177405]You did try. And you were right,but the exact text is "this is in response to your application which we received for the following merchant Mariner credential(s): domestic endorsement apprentice mate (Steersman) NC & WR. After a comprehensive evaluation, your application for the above mmc (s) is approved. Prior to issuance,you will be required to pass the following examinations: module…[/QUOTE] Yes, that letter warrants a phone call to clarify what they approved you for. ---
**Author:** ![drew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b19c9b/32.png) [@drew](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/drew)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 5:30am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/mot-oceans-add-western-rivers/15332/25 "2016-01-22T05:30:56Z")
[QUOTE=jdcavo;170098]The language he quoted is accurate, it’s from footnote 1 in Table 1 to [46 CFR 11.464(a)](http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=d6bce4f6c94eb3cc3c2e77232185913c&mc=true&node=se46.1.11_1464&rgn=div8)[/QUOTE] It’s also not clear: Can Master of tow Inland qualify for Mate of Towing ocean by this path? ---
**Author:** ![tugsailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@tugsailor](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tugsailor)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 6:41am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/mot-oceans-add-western-rivers/15332/26 "2016-01-22T06:41:42Z")
[QUOTE=drew;177539]It’s also not clear: Can Master of tow Inland qualify for Mate of Towing ocean by this path?[/QUOTE] That is a good question. I hope not. While I am very much in favor of reasonable upgrade paths for mariner’s, the notion of an inland mariner who has never towed on the wire, or done any real navigation, becoming an instant mate on an ocean tug is quite scary. If this is allowed, why bother to have licenses at all. The USCG might as well go home, let anyone and everyone run a tugboat, and leave it to Darwin to sort them out. ---
**Author:** ![drew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b19c9b/32.png) [@drew](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/drew)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 11:32am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/mot-oceans-add-western-rivers/15332/27 "2016-02-12T11:32:17Z")
[QUOTE=tugsailor;169854]My understanding is that you need 90 days (or 60 - 12hour days) on Western Rivers to add Western Rivers to Master of Towing. Never heard what it might take to add Mate Western Rivers to Master of Towing. I will be interested to hear how you make out with this.[/QUOTE] Glad to report: applied, tested and added mate of towing western rivers (and near coastal)to my master of towing inland. No plans to leave the east coast, but better to have it and not need it… ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/capt_phoenix/32/281_2.png) [@Capt\_Phoenix](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Capt_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2016, 12:11pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/mot-oceans-add-western-rivers/15332/28 "2016-02-12T12:11:45Z")
[QUOTE=drew;177539]It’s also not clear: Can Master of tow Inland qualify for Mate of Towing ocean by this path?[/QUOTE] I thought it was pretty clear that you get to go one step at a time, Inland to NC, NC to Oceans, etc. - - - Updated - - - [QUOTE=drew;179064]Glad to report: applied, tested and added mate of towing western rivers (and near coastal)to my master of towing inland.[/QUOTE] Great news! Thanks for the update. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/capt_phoenix/32/281_2.png) [@Capt\_Phoenix](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Capt_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 12:58am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/mot-oceans-add-western-rivers/15332/29 "2017-06-29T00:58:44Z")
> [@Capt\_Phoenix](#): > > The example on the USCG website is if you have MOT Western Rivers you can add Mate Inland I can no longer find this example on the NMC’s website, does anyone have the FAQ saved or remember where to locate it? ---
**Author:** ![ColumbiaMariner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/87869e/32.png) [@ColumbiaMariner](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ColumbiaMariner)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 5:08am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/mot-oceans-add-western-rivers/15332/30 "2017-06-29T05:08:28Z")
With Master of Towing Inland you definitely can be have an endorsement for a superior route on which you have NO operating experience after passing an examination for the superior route (from footnote 1 in Table 1 to 46 CFR 11.464(a), as jdcavo pointed out. I have Master of Towing Inland and have been approved to test for Mate of Towing Oceans by NMC and I am in the process of testing now. I have no ocean experience. The Navigation Problems Ocean module is celestial navigation. So to answer Drew’s question, yes. [Previous page](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/mot-oceans-add-western-rivers/15332.md?page=1)