More respect for US Navy officers and enlisted personnel needed

san diego has to be one of the worst harbors in california when it comes to having a large number of oblivious, recreational mariners getting in the way.

1 Like

Off topic but the recreational boat manufacturers have a HUUUGE lobby in Washington. They are not going away any time soonā€¦

I donā€™t, only to say that it wasnā€™t the one Iā€™m on.

Iā€™m a little surprised that it was an error like that though, Master Helmsman isnā€™t usually an easy qual to get. If the bridge got hectic I might be able to see it, though one would hope that in the wake of the Fitz, McCain, and remembering the Porter people would be aware of the dangers of this.

Does firing Commanders help in improving the respect for USN, or improve the ability to avoid collisions and groundings??: http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/us-navy-fires-2-commanders-after-asia-sea-accidents-9228290

Generally they fire a CO based on a ā€œloss of confidence in their ability to command,ā€ which essentially just means ā€œwe donā€™t trust you to successfully command a warship anymore.ā€

Some of it is setting an example to the rest of the COs that the Navy wonā€™t let you get away with such things and keep command, and some of it is showing the outside world that the Navy has taken some action in the wake of the accidents.

Yes it shows that ā€œthe Navy have taken some actionā€. Good PR for the media, but does it do anything to improve the ability of the people on the bridge to avoid running into, or getting in the way of things??

1 Like

Well I can tell you that changes are coming down from SURFOR regarding this stuff.

Iā€™m not sure how much of it is releasable as yet, but at least one of the changes will be visible to the merchant marine(and something that people on this very forum have brought up.)

So they will switch on the AIS, at least when in heavy trafficked areas??
But that only help others to avoid them, not them making the right decisions. Rocks and reefs donā€™t monitor AIS.

Besides, if a wrong decisions are made, like making sudden changes that is either putting them in front of another ship, or too late to be detected and acted upon by other vessels, it may get them in the wrong place at the wrong time.

2 Likes

Is this when we dig out the video of ā€œWeā€™re a lighthouseā€¦ your call mate.ā€ ??

2 Likes

Based on the historical record, that would be a big no.

Well, guess it was more releasable than I thought if you already found part of it, hah.

But yes the AIS is one of the changes, basically it should be on when not out in the open ocean away from shipping lanes, from what I understand. Iā€™ve already seen my own ship on marinetraffic.com as of about 5 minutes ago.

There are other directives that came down about navigation / bridge watchstanding as well, in his message, mostly revolving around the bridge. He also is enforcing the circadian watch rotation to ensure bridge teams have adequate rest, and ordering that mo-boards be run and extra monitoring be added for any contacts within a certain CPA.

Thereā€™s also a piece about standardizing some standing orders and moving to have a sort of ā€œNavy-wideā€ standard base of Standing Orders that COā€™s canā€™t modify, IE you MUST call the CO if a contact will CPA within xxx yards or something like that. This is already is most of them(all that Iā€™ve seen), but the yards reported at varies.

Many places in the world the traffic is so dense that distance between vessels are indeed counted in metres (yard) not n.miles. Singapore Strait, English Channel and the approaches to Tokyo Bay are among them.

Even large swats of waters like the Southern North Sea, East China Sea, Yellow Sea etc. can be a challenge for inexperienced watch standers.

When is the CO going to get his rest if he is called every time a ship gets within a mile, or whatever?

PS> I ā€œdidnā€™t find part of itā€, it is just the obvious first step that donā€™t need any training or have any negative consequences. Luck guess.

1 Like

Generally we maneuver to keep all traffic outside 5k yards at a minimum if weā€™re able to move. The only time we get that close to traffic is during transits, which the CO is either on the bridge for anyway or is aware that the number of phone calls will be high. The CO only needs a call if the CPA will be within xxx yards regardless of our own maneuvering, or if we are unable to open CPA to an acceptable range.

The CO sleeps whenever the CO can, in my experience.

So does the Master on merchant ships, or at least used to. The rules used to say; ā€œthe Master shall ensure he gets enough restā€ but not specifying what ā€œenoughā€ constitute.

My longest spell on the bridge without sleep was 56 hours when delivering a scrap ship from Singapore to Taiwan with unqualified mates and dodging a Typhoon, but I donā€™t recommend it.

The point is that there should be another person able and allowed to take the place of the CO when he is unable to perform because of fatigue, or for whatever other reason.

1 Like

You got that right.

And thereā€™s a big contradiction that needs to be faced up to but probably will not be: the effects of lack of sleep on alertness, judgment, situational awareness, etc. are precisely the same as consumption of alcohol or depressant-type drugs or medications, and this is all well-studied, well-known and well-documented.

1 Like

And studiously ignored in the face of personal and professional interests. No one has ever been promoted or received a medal for getting enough sleep.

2 Likes

The point is that there should be another person able and allowed to take the place of the CO when he is unable to perform because of fatigue, or for whatever other reason.

This is what the XO and/or Navigator are for as well, if the CO is exhausted he/she has every right and ability to inform the bridge that the XO will be taking reports for him for the next however many hours, though generally this would only be done away from heavy traffic areas. Iā€™ve personally only ever seen it a few times, but then usually Iā€™ve noticed COs manage to get enough sleep, if that means sleeping in the morning or taking time to rest in the afternoon.

And, since I brought it upā€¦

2 Likes

Yes that is what the XO (or Chief Officer on a merchant ship) is supposed to do, but the question is about their ability to do so competently. IF the CO (or Master) is always there and in charge when the ship is entering and leaving ports, or in all difficult situations, how does the XO (Mate) get experience?

I know from the Offshore industry that the Master were/are frequently the only one to actually handle the boat during anchor handling and mooring operations. The Chief Engineer would be the only winch operator.

Some Masters looked at this as ā€œjob securityā€, in other cases it was standing instructions from the company. The result are frequently badly fatigued boat handlers and winch operators.
As sole Rig Mover I would be the same. 36 hr. without sleep would not be unusual, but far from safe.

Then I came on a Norwegian AHTS to witness their handling of anchors in >2000 m. of water off Papua, Indonesia. The Master and Mate did their regular 6 hr. rotation, with the 2nd Mates assisting and operating the winches, also rotating ev. 6 hrs.

Going alongside at the base or the rig was left to the 2nd Mates, but with the Master or Mate on the bridge. A VERY unusual thing for me, who were used to ā€œthe way it had always been doneā€.

You may gain knowledge from schooling and some experience from simulators, but only hands on operation prepares you for the day you are in command.
I know, I have been there and became ā€œinstant expertā€ the day I took command of my first ship, in 1971, (Also in Papua by the way)

One of the jobs of the CO is to ensure that the XO is ready to assume command. Often times the XO of a DDG will ā€œfleet upā€ to become the CO when the current CO leaves, then the Navy will assign a new XO.

Iā€™ve seen COs let the XO run evolutions from the bridge and just act as a backstop in case things go south, but of course the CO is always there for such things.

If a COā€™s not setting up the XO to take over, then theyā€™re already failing in their duties as a CO.

2 Likes