# Military time and License upgrades **URL:** \ **Category:** Professional Mariner Forum\ **Created:** [February 11, 2014, 4:30am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/military-time-and-license-upgrades/12089 "2014-02-11T04:30:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![David\_Biron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbe5ce/32.png) [@David\_Biron](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/David_Biron)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 4:30am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/military-time-and-license-upgrades/12089/1 "2014-02-11T04:30:51Z")
I currently hold a 1600 Master Oceans with Master of Tow. I am in the process of applying for an upgrade (?) to 3rd Mate Unlimited. My evaluator has informed me I must submit assessments to get STCW endorsement as OICNW . When I first spoke with NMC prior to launching my application… I was informed that as a 1600 Master Oceans, I did not need to submit any assessments. I would also like to add that I am a former Navy Officer (6yrs) during which time I qualified as OOD. I have also read somewhere that time as OOD counts as Mate time. Does this mean that as a qualified OOD, I should also be qualified as OICNW ? I am aware that if I do not lead my evaluator by the hand to the proper information, I will end up doing things many times over ! I also know it will be more work for me to have the CG accept my Navy OOD qualification as meeting STCW OICNW requirements than it would be to have an associate sign 80 pgs of assessments in 1 day and mail them in. Its the principle of the whole thing. Thanks for your help. ---
**Author:** ![rigdvr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@rigdvr](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/rigdvr)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 5:22am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/military-time-and-license-upgrades/12089/2 "2014-02-11T05:22:07Z")
You will need the assessments. Unsure about the Navy time but a 1600 does not get you out of the assessments, and your oceans class certificate will not carry over to third, you will need that module as well. It’s better than taking the classes the assessments replaced. ---
**Author:** ![Bloodyshitcakes](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/bloodyshitcakes/32/181_2.png) [@Bloodyshitcakes](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Bloodyshitcakes)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 5:28am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/military-time-and-license-upgrades/12089/3 "2014-02-11T05:28:25Z")
You will have to take a 7 module exam too! ---
**Author:** ![z-drive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c37758/32.png) [@z-drive](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/z-drive)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 8:21am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/military-time-and-license-upgrades/12089/4 "2014-02-11T08:21:56Z")
The 1600 mate exams I once took were the same as the 3rd mate exams… Obviously not the case as master but I bet it would be worth the appeal to see what happens if you’ve taken the 7 module 1600 license exams. No idea on assessments. In a case like this time and time again it’s worth every penny for a license consultant. ---
**Author:** ![rigdvr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@rigdvr](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/rigdvr)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 8:35am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/military-time-and-license-upgrades/12089/5 "2014-02-11T08:35:37Z")
> [@"z-drive"](#): > > The 1600 mate exams I once took were the same as the 3rd mate exams… Obviously not the case as master but I bet it would be worth the appeal to see what happens if you’ve taken the 7 module 1600 license exams. No idea on assessments. In a case like this time and time again it’s worth every penny for a license consultant. It’s pretty clear in this one. If you have taken the mates exam AFTER 2002, you would not need to test again. If that were the case, you would already have the assessments or classes for OICNW. The 500M/1600M/3M is the same test and only time/tonnage determines which you get. There is no crossover from 1600 master to 3M at this time. There are tons of threads on here from mariners looking for the nonexistent easy path to unlimited. What pisses most guys off is the 70 question cross over from 2M to 1600 master. So a third mate with one year experience upgrades to 2M and can easily get a 1600 master but a guy with years as a “limited” 1600 master has to jump through all the fiery hoops to become a mate. Lol ---
**Author:** ![z-drive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c37758/32.png) [@z-drive](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/z-drive)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 8:50am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/military-time-and-license-upgrades/12089/6 "2014-02-11T08:50:31Z")
> [@"rigdvr"](#): > > It’s pretty clear in this one. If you have taken the mates exam AFTER 2002, you would not need to test again. If that were the case, you would already have the assessments or classes for OICNW. The 500M/1600M/3M is the same test and only time/tonnage determines which you get. There is no crossover from 1600 master to 3M at this time. There are tons of threads on here from mariners looking for the nonexistent easy path to unlimited. > > What pisses most guys off is the 70 question cross over from 2M to 1600 master. So a third mate with one year experience upgrades to 2M and can easily get a 1600 master but a guy with years as a “limited” 1600 master has to jump through all the fiery hoops to become a mate. Lol Yes, just saying because maybe he had a mate’s license and was examined as such? Unlikely but Who knows. ---
**Author:** ![Captsail](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/958977/32.png) [@Captsail](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Captsail)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 8:52am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/military-time-and-license-upgrades/12089/7 "2014-02-11T08:52:05Z")
In my experience, my Navy time as a qualified OOD was considered as time while holding a license. However, that was about 15 years ago when I got my 1st license. ---
**Author:** ![jdcavo](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/jdcavo/32/108_2.png) [@jdcavo](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/jdcavo)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 9:09am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/military-time-and-license-upgrades/12089/8 "2014-02-11T09:09:06Z")
[QUOTE=David Biron;130515]I currently hold a 1600 Master Oceans with Master of Tow. I am in the process of applying for an upgrade (?) to 3rd Mate Unlimited. My evaluator has informed me I must submit assessments to get STCW endorsement as OICNW . When I first spoke with NMC prior to launching my application… I was informed that as a 1600 Master Oceans, I did not need to submit any assessments. I would also like to add that I am a former Navy Officer (6yrs) during which time I qualified as OOD. I have also read somewhere that time as OOD counts as Mate time. Does this mean that as a qualified OOD, I should also be qualified as OICNW ? I am aware that if I do not lead my evaluator by the hand to the proper information, I will end up doing things many times over ! I also know it will be more work for me to have the CG accept my Navy OOD qualification as meeting STCW OICNW requirements than it would be to have an associate sign 80 pgs of assessments in 1 day and mail them in. Its the principle of the whole thing. Thanks for your help.[/QUOTE] See NVIC 02-14b at [http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/announcements/pdfs/nvic-02-14\_Grandfathering\_final\_with\_encls\_20140122.pdf](http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/announcements/pdfs/nvic-02-14_Grandfathering_final_with_encls_20140122.pdf) From page 15 of Enclosure 2 summarizing transition provisions for an OICNW endorsement: Operational-level assessments are not required if the mariner holds or has previously held an STCW endorsement as Master (STCW II/2) valid on vessels of 500 GT or more issued after 1997.