Licencing Raise Of Grade Question C/E NC to C/E Oceans (Limited)

I currently have a Raise of Grade application before an evaluator at the NMC. C/E Limited NC to C/E Limited Oceans. The evaluator has gotten back to and told me I need over 900 days on vessels over 4000 HP to avoid a HP Limitation. That is over 50% of the total required days needed for the License. The Marine Safetey Manual says differently.
"[LEFT][SIZE=1]3. [U]Limited Engineering License Raises Of Grade (Other Than Designated Duty Engineers). [/U][U][/LEFT][/U][LEFT]Although the regulations state the service requirements for all limited engineer licenses in terms of the total service required, horsepower limitations for raises of grade should be determined based on the additional service needed for the raise of grade. EXAMPLE: An assistant engineer of uninspected fishing industry vessels applies for a raise of grade to chief engineer and presents a year of service in addition to the three years already presented to qualify for the assistant engineer license. Although 46 CFR 10.530© requires four years of service to qualify for this license, the horsepower limitation should be based on the one year of additional service needed to raise the license from assistant engineer to chief engineer. This is consistent with the way horsepower limitations are determined for upper level licenses. However, for an original license as chief engineer of uninspected fishing industry vessels, the horsepower limitation is based on the entire four years of service required. [/LEFT]12-7

Has any one run into this contradiction before. The checklist the evaluators use states that over 900 days are necessary to avoid the HP Limitation. Am I wasting my time posing the obvious question ? Why publish guides in the Marine Safety manual then not abide by them ? Is there any merit in pursuing an appeal of the decision ? has any one had any luck with a rational logic based appeal to the NMC ? What is the Marine Safety Manual? Do any regulations or policies dictate the NMC must follow its stipulations ?

Any help would be great. Getting tired of NMC nonsense .


I had a similar situation in that they were ignoring the MSM. Mine had to do with which tests I did/didn’t have to take. In the end I chose to give in and do it their way because It would have taken longer to fight. Yours is a bigger issue and I definitely wouldn’t back down.

Have you brought the MSM to their attention and they are still sticking to the 900 days? Did you ask for the evaluators supervisor? Did you ask for them to provide written justification for ignoring the MSM?

That would be my approach, put them in the position of having to justify themselves instead of you having to justify yourself … Not that it will do you any good in the long run.

If you do write a letter, find one of theirs like an NVIC and copy the format using references and enclosures. “speaking their language” ivan only help in getting them to see your point.

If all of your past sea time is on vessels under 4000hp you will need the 900 days on vessels over 4000hp. I went through hell getting my hp restrictions removed cause I had a lot of sea time under 4000hp. It took me a few years of sea time of over 4000hp to remove the restriction. If I remember right I needed 50% of my sea time to be on vessels over 4000hp to get the hp restriction removed.

Did you try giving then the msm citation? You cannot expect them to be familiar with every weird upgrade possible so sometimes you need to educate them. I had an issue like that once, the evaluator called saying I didn’t meet certain requirements at all, I gave her an msm citation, she called me back 15 minutes later saying we were good to go.

§ 11.503 Horsepower limitations.

© The following service on vessels of 4,000 horsepower or over will be considered qualifying for the raising or removing of horsepower limitations placed on an engineer license or MMC endorsement:

(1) Six months of service in the highest-grade endorsed: removal of all horsepower limitations.

(2) Six months of service as an officer in any capacity other than the highest grade for which licensed or endorsed: Removal of all horsepower limitations for the grade in which service is performed and raise the next higher grade endorsement to the horsepower of the vessel on which service was performed. The total cumulative service before and after issuance of the limited license or MMC endorsement may be considered in removing all horsepower limitations.

(3) Twelve months of service as oiler or junior engineer while holding a license or MMC endorsement as third assistant engineer or assistant engineer (limited oceans): removal of all horsepower limitations on third assistant engineer or assistant engineer’s (limited oceans) endorsement.

(4) Six months of service as oiler or junior engineer while holding a license or MMC endorsement as second assistant engineer: removal of all horsepower limitations on third assistant engineer’s endorsement.

(d) Raising or removing horsepower limitations based on service required by paragraph © of this section may be granted without further written examination providing the OCMI who issued the applicant’s license or MMC endorsement, considers further examination unnecessary.