Is it illegal to support unions?

[QUOTE=Rich Bogad;160410]It is against federal law for a company to require anybody, management or not, to sign an agreement that deprives them of the right to join a union. I’ve never even heard of any company trying to do that.[/QUOTE]

Well, it’s a happnin’ Rhymes with orange… I am sure it is legit, I have a source that is freaking out about it. Nobody wants to get black balled, especially right now in the downturn.

Remember the attempt some years ago by river mariners to form a new union called Pilots Agree? Merely by talking and posting online some years ago the Pilots Agree mariners prompted river employers ( many Southern and Gulf employers) to dramatically increase mariner wages. Now the larger river towboats pay $1000 a day.

The top five companies in the Gulf already pay better than union wages. What would a union do for Gulf mariners? How would it benefit them? Just talkng about a union might do something for Gulf mariners. A gcaptain subforum might be a good place to get that going.

The NLRB wont do anything for masters, because the NLRB considers them to be “management.” Its been that way for years.

[QUOTE=c.captain;160404]I believe in the past, the officers are managers claim was used for a company to declare null and void a contract with a union for the officers however, it was the mariners who chose to enforce that by going along with it. If marine officers want to be represented by a union, there in no LAW in the land that a union cannot represent them hence why the MMP, MEBA and AMO represent officers where ever the officers stand by the union. A company can try to bust a union but it is up to the rank and file if that will be allowed to stand. The workers have the right to call BULLSHIT on Joe Boss but rarely do even in relatively strong unions these days. You don’t hear much about strikes anywhere anymore and it isn’t because all the bosses are just the nicest people ever.

If a company which currently does not have a contract with an officers union wants their officers to sign some statement declaring that they hold with the company policy then it is equivalent to a loyalty oath but could not be enforced in a court however Louisiana being an at-will employment state, anyone violating an oath they took siding with the company would have little recourse if they were fired for later asking for union representation. Joe Boss is running scared and is trying to intimidate his officers now to toe the line and be loyal serfs. Joe wanting it in writing is what is telling here because in the past he managed to bullshit the workers into believing they were getting ambrosia instead of a shit sandwich. Maybe the mariners are waking up to realize that they aren’t eating the food of the Gods any more but the boss’s feces instead? If so, then good for them I say…welcome to the fight brother!

The only way to make a union in the GoM get standing is by solidarity across all trades and a massive walkout by all oilfield mariners. But Joe would always find enough scabs by tossing money at them and that is why you will never see a union in the GoM. The sad reality is that the mariners really hold the aces since Joe cannot hire scabs with the required certificates off the street anymore. He needs the workers he has because the USCG will not accept substitutes (or would they?) Sadly, though the mariners will cave as they always do and sign the loyalty oath believing that it is in their best interest to do so when in reality it is in their worse. This is why I always say the GoM is a backwards land and will remain backwards for the foreseeable future. Walk backwards, talk backwards, think backwards, act backwards, get stabbed in the back and ask the boss for another…what a world!
.[/QUOTE]
Scabs ? Actually the trend now is to hire academy grads. As they are new to the industry, young and with the money the GOM joe boss throws at them…To new to fully comprehend or understand the union advantage. Then there is of course the bayou folk, who may have hawsepiped but will still fall for the joe boss shit being anything but shit.

There is confusion about the “At Will” terminology. Most people think it means a company can fire an employee at will, but that is incorrect.

If a company has a contract with a union on behalf of the employees, AND if the state has an At Will law, then an employee cannot be forced to join the union to work for that company. The employee can work At Will where they want, free of having to join a union.

If the state does NOT have an At Will law, then the employee can be required to join the union when they start work for that company. As a kid growing up in NY, I remember my brother having to join a union to get a summer job shoveling sand at a foundry, because NY had no At Will law, and the company had a contract with a union.

Virginia is an At Will state, and many companies have union contracts, but about half of the employees are not in the union. They get the benefit of the union contract pay, but not any benefits provided by the union itself, if any. This does dilute the power of the union considerably, but allows freedom of choice for the individual.

I am a union member, but support the concept of At Will laws and the freedom it provides. GOD Bless America!

[QUOTE=samat3;160419]There is confusion about the “At Will” terminology. Most people think it means a company can fire an employee at will, but that is incorrect.

If a company has a contract with a union on behalf of the employees, AND if the state has an At Will law, then an employee cannot be forced to join the union to work for that company. The employee can work At Will where they want, free of having to join a union.

If the state does NOT have an At Will law, then the employee can be required to join the union when they start work for that company. As a kid growing up in NY, I remember my brother having to join a union to get a summer job shoveling sand at a foundry, because NY had no At Will law, and the company had a contract with a union.

Virginia is an At Will state, and many companies have union contracts, but about half of the employees are not in the union. They get the benefit of the union contract pay, but not any benefits provided by the union itself, if any. This does dilute the power of the union considerably, but allows freedom of choice for the individual.

I am a union member, but support the concept of At Will laws and the freedom it provides. GOD Bless America![/QUOTE]

You are conflating At Will with Right to Work.

      • Updated - - -

This is one of many pages that explain the differences between Right to Work and Employment At-Will.

Getting Your Terms Right: “Right to Work” -vs.- “At-Will Employment”
Authored by: Gary J. Cohen

“This is a right-to-work state and I’ll fire whoever I want for whatever reason I want.” The problem with this statement that employers often make is that “right-to-work” laws involve employee rights during an employment relationship, particularly in the context of labor unions. The “employment at-will” doctrine is what governs employer and employee rights in terminating an employment relationship. Many people wrongfully use the term “right-to-work” interchangeably with the phrase “employment at-will” because they do not understand the difference.

The right-to-work doctrine, originally established in the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA) of 1935, gives employees the option to refrain from engaging in collective activity such as labor organizing and union representation. A right-to-work state is a state that does not require union membership as a condition of employment. In other states, a person applying for a job where the employees are unionized could be required to join the union as a requirement of being hired. Because Arizona is a right-to-work state, employees are not required to be members of a union or pay union dues.

The employment at-will doctrine applies when an employee works for an employer without a written contract, signed by both the employer and employee that sets forth the terms of the employment relationship. This is the situation for the vast majority of employment relationships.

Under the employment at-will doctrine, both the employer and employee can terminate an employment relationship at any time without consequence. The employment relationship can be terminated for any reason or no reason. The employer cannot, however, ever terminate an employee for an “illegal” reason, such as termination based on discrimination against certain protected classes such as sex, gender, race, religion or national origin; violation of the Americans With Disabilities Act; and termination in violation of the Age Discrimination in Employment Act.

So, employers can terminate employees that do not have a written employment contract for any non-discriminatory, non-retaliatory reason. This is because Arizona is an at-will employment state, not because it is a right-to-work state."

Sign me up for scab work I love paying my mortgage.

[QUOTE=Fraqrat;160424]Sign me up for scab work I love paying my mortgage.[/QUOTE]

And that’s exactly the difficulty people would face in getting any theoretical union going, and exactly what Joe Boss relies upon to keep unions out. There’s always going to be someone willing to take that job, someone who decides that he’s got much more to lose (house, car, credit rating) than he would gain by being in a union.

As far as I can determine, there’s no actual employment contract in place at many if not most GOM companies, yeah? So let’s say you and some buddies wanted to get together and organize. Yes, Joe Boss isn’t supposed to discourage or hinder unionization, but when he finds out you and your buddies want to unionize, what’s to stop him from simply not rehiring you after your next vacation? Especially given Louisiana’s at-will labor laws? “Sorry, the job just went away, you just weren’t working out for us,” whatever other lame excuse they can come up with. Yeah, you know and Joe Boss knows it’s because you wanted to unionize, but good luck proving that. And even if you managed to hold onto your job, you can bet Joe Boss will be looking for every single opportunity he can to get rid of you.

My crew isn’t interested in organizing anything but a ride to and from the airport for crewchange. If I’m not happy with my pay, benefits, etc. I can organize a job hunt to a better company. I guess the underlying mentality down here is most feel they are being treated fairly. Fifteen years ago you could say the bayou Mariners didn’t know any better but that’s no longer the case. There are plenty of ex Union, deep sea, tug, dredge you name it working here now. After spending half a year with these people for many years I never once hear them say “boy I wish we had a union down here”. The ones that have had conversations about being in the union usually don’t have anything good to say about the experience. So I believe the consensus opinion we don’t know any better is way off. Being ex union my personal thoughts are they would fuck this whole place up with their presence. I ended up out here because at that time jobs were for sale at the hall and I didn’t feel I should have to buy one. I went to piney point I was gung ho I bought the whole party line. After four years of growing up and having the curtain pulled back was a big eye opener. There is no U in union only $ signs made off of your dues and good works.

[QUOTE=Fraqrat;160429]My crew isn’t interested in organizing anything but a ride to and from the airport for crewchange. If I’m not happy with my pay, benefits, etc. I can organize a job hunt to a better company. I guess the underlying mentality down here is most feel they are being treated fairly. Fifteen years ago you could say the bayou Mariners didn’t know any better but that’s no longer the case. There are plenty of ex Union, deep sea, tug, dredge you name it working here now. After spending half a year with these people for many years I never once hear them say “boy I wish we had a union down here”. The ones that have had conversations about being in the union usually don’t have anything good to say about the experience. So I believe the consensus opinion we don’t know any better is way off. Being ex union my personal thoughts are they would fuck this whole place up with their presence. I ended up out here because at that time jobs were for sale at the hall and I didn’t feel I should have to buy one. I went to piney point I was gung ho I bought the whole party line. After four years of growing up and having the curtain pulled back was a big eye opener. There is no U in union only $ signs made off of your dues and good works.[/QUOTE]

The issue was not “for or against” the union. It was can your employer force you to sign documents saying that you are against the union.

He won’t have to force me fuck those bloodsucking bastards I’ll graffiti it on the side of the union HQ.

[QUOTE=Ea$y Money;160430]The issue was not “for or against” the union. It was can your employer force you to sign documents saying that you are against the union.[/QUOTE]

Pretty sure everyone that works for the company you’re talking about did just that when they signed on the dotted line to work there. Or at least I did when I came to work 10 years ago. That may have been because I was hoofing it to get away from a union at the time, but I think it was in everyone’s new-hire packet.

[QUOTE=Fraqrat;160431]He won’t have to force me, fuck those bloodsucking bastards I’ll graffiti it on the side of the union HQ.[/QUOTE]

Amen!

[QUOTE=Fraqrat;160429] Being ex union my personal thoughts are they would fuck this whole place up with their presence. I ended up out here because at that time jobs were for sale at the hall and I didn’t feel I should have to buy one. I went to piney point I was gung ho I bought the whole party line. After four years of growing up and having the curtain pulled back was a big eye opener. There is no U in union only $ signs made off of your dues and good works.[/QUOTE]
Remember when in the GOM, if the “company man” said go and you failed to go because the fog was so thick it were zero visibility you were terminated ? What about upgrading, professional developement classes, or classes required to just maintain your MMC. Joe boss may or may not assist with those classes, most will have some sort of procedure if any to go through to get sponsored. At least with unions, you can just go to the union schools. I am not pushing the union thing on anyone, but in all fairness the whole picture should be painted. There is injustice on both sides of the coin, I however believe you should not get fired for refusing to do something illegal. Non-union companies in at-will states, it happens all the time. You think the company is going to tell the truth ? When it comes down to it, it is your word vs thiers and they have a lawyer on staff. Treated fairly ? An employer forcing you to sign papers refusing union ?? How you going to prove ? No body held a gun to your head and said sign these or else…You did not have to take the job. Yeah I am aware of the economic impacts of not working. Think that will hold up in court ? It is not about what is legal or illegal, who has the money. Wanna be the union crusader of the GOM ? Wanna crusade about injustice ? hope you got deep pockets and a lot of friends…union vs. non-union look at it this way unions don’t insult your intelligence they tell you it is shit, non - union insult your intelligence they tell you it is anything but shit. I guess the best any of us poor folk can do, is…

[QUOTE=Fraqrat;160429]My crew isn’t interested in organizing anything but a ride to and from the airport for crewchange. If I’m not happy with my pay, benefits, etc. I can organize a job hunt to a better company. I guess the underlying mentality down here is most feel they are being treated fairly. Fifteen years ago you could say the bayou Mariners didn’t know any better but that’s no longer the case. There are plenty of ex Union, deep sea, tug, dredge you name it working here now. After spending half a year with these people for many years I never once hear them say “boy I wish we had a union down here”. The ones that have had conversations about being in the union usually don’t have anything good to say about the experience. So I believe the consensus opinion we don’t know any better is way off. Being ex union my personal thoughts are they would fuck this whole place up with their presence. I ended up out here because at that time jobs were for sale at the hall and I didn’t feel I should have to buy one. I went to piney point I was gung ho I bought the whole party line. After four years of growing up and having the curtain pulled back was a big eye opener. There is no U in union only $ signs made off of your dues and good works.[/QUOTE]

The issue was not “for or against” the union. It was can your employer force you to sign documents saying that you are against the union.

BWAHAHAHAHA!!! Oh no buddy after four months of indoctrination at the gulag in Maryland they had you believing it was rainbows and unicorns. They too have a shit sandwich and they serve it up on a daily basis as well. I’ve witnessed on multiple occasions in multiple halls including the big meetings up at the school. Someone steps up with a nay and he gets shouted down and mean mugged til he sits down. Yeah let’s get both sides of the issue out there. I know what I saw and I know what I was told and I know what ive overheard during those big fundraisers up at the school.

I understand your point. I would be flabbergasted if this was a publicly traded company doing this.

yes, a publicly traded company would have to be much more circumspect about demanding a “loyalty oath” from employees for no other reason that to do so would be seen by shareholders (many of which are pension funds of unions or at least unionized public servants). In any event, a member of the forum has provided the ECO memo to me earlier today…he did not ask that I not post it here but I am protecting his identity per his request…

here’s how it reads:

As a supervisor or manager for Edison Chouest Offshore, you are expected to carry out all Management Policy to insure a secure working environment for all employees. Directing our workforce is a very challenging task. It is your most important responsibility as a supervisor or manager. You are responsible for developing and maintaining good work habits and relationships. This is to be done through maintaining a high level of performance in your department and/or on the jobsite.

Regarding potential Union organizing, it is the duty of each supervisor or manager to aggressively and legally defend the company and employees against any acts from outside organizations that could be harmful or destructive to the Company. We believe that Unions and unionization fall into this category.

It is illegal for any supervisor or manager of the Company to support Union organizing, contribute financial support or other support to Unions.

The following are guidelines all supervisors and managers must follow:

As a supervisor or manager, you are to represent the Company to the best of your ability, concerning customers, property and employees.
You are to defend the Company’s interest aggressively, but always within the law.
We expect you to use your best judgment when you assign work and direct those employees that you supervise. It is of utmost importance that you establish and maintain a level of credibility and trust with your employees.
As an agent of management you are given the authority in your area of the company, to make decisions based on your judgment, experience and opinion that will best serve the Company’s interest.
You have the responsibility to use your own judgment in directing the operations and duties of those employees under you, while encouraging them to do their best.
You are the prime source of information for employees and Company management. You must listen and communicate to employees when changes in policy and procedure are made.
If issues and/or questions arise with employees that you cannot resolve, inform your direct manager immediately. Your credibility requires an objective and timely response to employee issues that arise.

If any information or issues come to you regarding Union activity or working conditions, report it to your superior immediately.

I agree with the above statements and my Company’s position.

Date _________________ Sign Supervisor/Manager ___________________________
Print Name_____________________________

each member here can form their own conclusions …to me it is nothing more than a baldfaced “loyalty oath” worthy of Uncle Joe Stalin himself. Sign the paper Comrade Tavarich, sing the paper or else!

of course, this could be a setup for civil action against individuals who sign it but don’t obey their pledge or only to cut the knees off any malcontents in the company who are grumbling? Maybe to just throw out everyone with principle enough to not sign and further decrease a surplus of mariners in the company?

anyway, now do you people believe me when I tell you that Joe is not really your kind uncle with the bushy mustaches who gives you candy out of the goodness of his heart but is in reality a brutal dictator bent on ironfisted control and domination of his famiglia?

Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas. - Joseph Stalin

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[QUOTE=Fraqrat;160435]BWAHAHAHAHA!!! Oh no buddy after four months of indoctrination at the gulag in Maryland they had you believing it was rainbows and unicorns. They too have a shit sandwich and they serve it up on a daily basis as well. I’ve witnessed on multiple occasions in multiple halls including the big meetings up at the school. Someone steps up with a nay and he gets shouted down and mean mugged til he sits down. Yeah let’s get both sides of the issue out there. I know what I saw and I know what I was told and I know what ive overheard during those big fundraisers up at the school.[/QUOTE]
Did you read my last few ; " union vs. non-union look at it this way unions don’t insult your intelligence they tell you it is shit, non - union insult your intelligence they tell you it is anything but shit."
I guess all any of us can do is decide which brand of shit, we can deal with.

[QUOTE=c.captain;160438]… each member here can form their own conclusions what Joe Chouest wants from this…

could it be civil action against individuals who sign it but don’t obey or only to cut the knees off any malcontents in the company who are grumbling?[/QUOTE] Wow! no wonder my buddy was freaking… Guess time will tell. I wish them the best, maybe nothing will come of it but it certainly seems that something is buzzing around the corporate compound. I didn’t see anything about ratings, maybe the officers are supposed to be running block to keep the ratings from organizing?

I know this discussion turns into union vs. non-union but I hope everyone sees the issue here at something specific to basic rights.

Wow, I’m so glad I left ECO and their corporate bullshit culture and went to work a “mom and pop” style company. I’m soooo much happier and we have gotten our safety points (it only got suspended for 2 months!) program back already and they are even increasing our insurance coverage package too

Ratings are NOT supervisors or managers. Masters and Chiefs certainly are managers. Mates and AEs, maybe or maybe not.

I bet this union talk started mostly because ECO screwed mariners out of their earned 401k match.

On that 401k issue, someone (probably someone that no longer works there) needs to speak with an ERISA lawyer about a class action lawsuit.

Clearly, ECO has union organizing worries. Where? Seattle?