# How much value in traditional navigation plotting skills? **URL:** \ **Category:** Professional Mariner Forum\ **Created:** [May 31, 2022, 11:58pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/how-much-value-in-traditional-navigation-plotting-skills/63236 "2022-05-31T23:58:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Capt\_Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/capt_phoenix/32/281_2.png) [@Capt\_Phoenix](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Capt_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 3:29pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/how-much-value-in-traditional-navigation-plotting-skills/63236/103 "2022-06-11T15:29:56Z")
> [@Sirk](#): > > What kind of ships are we talking about? Any commercial vessel requiring a license to operate, since the original question was why is the USCG still testing prior on chart plotting if paper charts are obsolete (they’re not). > [@Sirk](#): > > No it is not. So what are your emergency procedures for if you lose GPS feed? Run around the bridge screaming in panic? ---
**Author:** ![Kennebec\_Captain](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/kennebec_captain/32/13_2.png) [@Kennebec\_Captain](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Kennebec_Captain)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 6:20pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/how-much-value-in-traditional-navigation-plotting-skills/63236/104 "2022-06-11T18:20:09Z")
> [@Capt\_Phoenix](#): > > Run around the bridge screaming in panic? Make sure that all the mates know how to switch over to dead-reckoning mode and can plot bearing and ranges on the ECDIS. Then no need to run around the bridge, just stand over the mate’s shoulder and scream at them in panic while they make the switch. 🙃 ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/capt_phoenix/32/281_2.png) [@Capt\_Phoenix](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Capt_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 6:30pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/how-much-value-in-traditional-navigation-plotting-skills/63236/105 "2022-06-11T18:30:53Z")
> [@Kennebec\_Captain](#): > > can plot bearing and ranges on the ECDIS. And I think it’s useful to know how to plot on paper charts because you’re learning the WHY at the same time so plotting on ECDIS will make sense when you need to do it. Additionally, it’s much easier for a student to learn on paper charts because then they don’t need their own ECDIS in order to practice. Then the only thing they’d need to learn would be type specific data input. ---
**Author:** ![Sirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/74df32/32.png) [@Sirk](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Sirk)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 8:37pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/how-much-value-in-traditional-navigation-plotting-skills/63236/106 "2022-06-11T20:37:35Z")
> [@Capt\_Phoenix](#): > > So what are your emergency procedures for if you lose GPS feed? Run around the bridge screaming in panic? GPS is not a synonym for a position sensor in ECDIS. Anyway, this form of discussion does not suit me, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/capt_phoenix/32/281_2.png) [@Capt\_Phoenix](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Capt_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 8:40pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/how-much-value-in-traditional-navigation-plotting-skills/63236/107 "2022-06-11T20:40:31Z")
Does your ECDIS have any automatic position inputs that AREN’T global satellite systems? ---
**Author:** ![Kennebec\_Captain](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/kennebec_captain/32/13_2.png) [@Kennebec\_Captain](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Kennebec_Captain)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2022, 10:22am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/how-much-value-in-traditional-navigation-plotting-skills/63236/108 "2022-06-12T10:22:35Z")
[https://www.nuovamarea.com/files/product%20manuals/Transas/INS%20Functional\_Description.pdf](https://www.nuovamarea.com/files/product%20manuals/Transas/INS%20Functional_Description.pdf) ![DR_1](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/gcaptain_maritime_forum/original/3X/6/f/6ff102a80a458108dabb69728f1d641c2fcbe801.png) ![DR_2](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/gcaptain_maritime_forum/original/3X/e/b/eb9f6192699b732a5e35b3dd35b59d05c07d2543.png) [![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/gcaptain_maritime_forum/original/3X/b/7/b785091986745ccf52685c40090a50fcac5d3921.jpeg "MANUAL FIX POSITION USING DEAD RECKONING ON ECDIS JRC JAN 901B/2000") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_yWApH5osU) ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/capt_phoenix/32/281_2.png) [@Capt\_Phoenix](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Capt_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2022, 3:24pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/how-much-value-in-traditional-navigation-plotting-skills/63236/109 "2022-06-12T15:24:02Z")
A manual fix isn’t an automatic input and dead reckoning is what the system does when it loses all automatic position inputs. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Allison](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/john_allison/32/19175_2.png) [@John\_Allison](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/John_Allison)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2022, 1:13pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/how-much-value-in-traditional-navigation-plotting-skills/63236/110 "2022-07-06T13:13:26Z")
Many years ago when I was third mate on a missile tracker the main electronic nav equipment (loran C, SATNAV) was giving conflicting information. A sunline settled the question. We shouldn’t abandon traditional skills just because some shiny new method appears. ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 12:59pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/how-much-value-in-traditional-navigation-plotting-skills/63236/111 "2022-07-07T12:59:23Z")
I visited what was then a modern Seismic Survey vessel in Balikpapan in 1971 and was very impressed with the Inertial Navigation System they had, showing position changes even when swinging at anchor: [https://www.vectornav.com/resources/inertial-navigation-articles/what-is-an-ins](https://www.vectornav.com/resources/inertial-navigation-articles/what-is-an-ins) Some months later I met the Captain again in Singapore, where his vessel was under repairs after running aground in East Indonesia while in transit between jobs. The INS was still active when the 2nd Off. was alone on watch in the afternoon. He saw a small island dead ahead, looked at the chart and the INS position and figured out that they were going to clear with good margin. He only realized too late that his eyes were more reliable that the INS and managed to slow down before hitting the island, which was charted 1 1/2 n.mile wrong by somebody back in 1880s. Not unusual in those days and nobody had corrected the mistake since then. ---
**Author:** ![PHQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed8c4c/32.png) [@PHQ](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/PHQ)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2022, 10:32pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/how-much-value-in-traditional-navigation-plotting-skills/63236/112 "2022-09-28T22:32:16Z")
The Navy’s choice in selecting officers, of college degree over operational experience, results in what you report. A merchant marine engine crewman can become qualified to get a third assistant engineer’s license and eventually become a Chief Engineer with pay and authority comparable to the Master. The best a Navy enlisted man can expect is Chief Petty Officer, Chief Warrant Officer and maybe Limited Duty Officer, reporting to a department head with none of the above. [Previous page](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/how-much-value-in-traditional-navigation-plotting-skills/63236.md?page=5)